Top state grammar vs top independent offer
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Re: Top state grammar vs top independent offer
The issue of indies being free to employ as teachers those who do not hold a teaching qualification (and I don't mean those who are currently training under whichever scheme and so do not yet have NQT status) is something which quite often pops up out in the real world - as opposed to on a forum such as this one - so in surprised that you haven't come across it before.purpletulip1212 wrote:Some of the info you have provided is something I have never heard before so maybe an unspoken truth regarding indies. Most of the indie parents talk about overall personality but there is something called the child's personality itself acc to me. What I specifically want to know is whether the 'old boys club' is operational in indies since that has far reaching consequences..Guest55 wrote:I am genuinely puzzled as to why people pay and what this 'something' might be.Daogroupie wrote:It is only worth paying for private school if your dc will receive "something" above and beyond what the state school offers.
Private schools have no admission rules to follow and are not really subject to 'proper' inspections. They can massage their data in a way state school cannot - no progress data to scrutinise for example.
Their teachers do not have to be qualified either; just because you pay [yes I know we al pay for state education] does not mean it is better. Caveat emptor!
Whether or not the individual schools that you are interested in avail themselves of this opportunity is something to ask them. Just because they can, doesn't
mean that they do
.As for admissions criteria - hang around on here for a while and you will find plenty of nuggets like, 'school won't actually tell me DC's position on the waiting list' (waiting lists are very strictly regulated in state schools under the Admissions Code), or the advice that the way to get your DC to the top of the waiting list is to ring up and assure them that that particular establishment is your DC's only desire and as soon as an offer comes your way, you will be round there with deposit cheque in hand. If the latter genuinely works, then you can understand a school's reluctance to accede to the aforementioned request
.Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx
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St Albans Dad
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Re: Top state grammar vs top independent offer
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... nds-survey" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A privately educated elite continues to dominate the UK’s leading professions, taking top jobs in fields as diverse as the law, politics, medicine and journalism, according to new research.
The Sutton Trust educational charity has been carrying out similar surveys for more than a decade, and though it reports “small signs” of progress, this year’s results confirm what has long been known – that if you have a private education, you are considerably more likely to get to the top of British public life.
Although just 7% of the population attend independent fee-paying schools, the survey reveals that almost three quarters (71%) of top military officers were educated privately, with 12% having been taught in comprehensive schools.
In the field of law, 74% of top judges working in the high court and appeals court were privately educated, while in journalism, more than half (51%) of leading print journalists went to independent schools, with one in five having attended comprehensive schools, which currently educate 88% of the population.
In medicine, meanwhile, Sutton Trust research says 61% of the country’s top doctors were educated at independent schools; nearly a quarter (22%) went to grammar school and the remainder to comprehensives.
In politics, the picture is a little better, with under a third (32%) of MPs having been privately educated, though that figure goes up to half of the cabinet, compared with 13% of the shadow cabinet.
Graduates of Oxford and Cambridge universities also continue to dominate the field, though they educate less than 1% of the population. In law, nearly three quarters (74%) of the top judiciary went to Oxbridge; 54% of the country’s leading journalists went to Oxbridge, and just under half (47%) of the cabinet attended Oxbridge, compared with 32% of the shadow cabinet.
The Sutton Trust’s Leading People 2016 report, which is published on Wednesday, tracks the educational backgrounds of leading figures in 10 areas of public life, among them film and music, which make an interesting contrast.
It reveals that award-winning British actors are more than twice as likely to have had a private education than award-winning pop stars. While 42% of British Bafta winners went to an independent school, just 19% of British winners at the Brit music awards were educated privately.
While Eddie Redmayne, star of The Danish Girl; Homeland actor Damian Lewis; and Tom Hiddleston, now starring in the BBC series The Night Manager, famously went to Eton College, the Sutton Trust points out that British music stars like Adele, Imogen Heap and Jessie J found success after attending the state-funded Brit School in Croydon.
The report welcomes a new focus on diversity and professional access, especially in the legal profession and the civil service, and says there are small signs that things may be “slowly changing in certain fields”.
In law, for example, while 76% of top judges attended private schools in the late 1980s, that went down to 75% by the mid-00s and is now at 74%. The report points out leading law firms have adopted a number of social-mobility programmes and the Solicitors Regulation Authority now collects data on solicitors’ educational backgrounds.
In business too, partly because of the internationalisation of top posts, the report says the proportion of FTSE 100 chief executives educated at independent schools has fallen from 70% in the late 1980s to 54% in the late 2000s and 34% today.
And in journalism the tide may be starting to turn; in the mid-80s more than 90% of leading editors had attended either private or grammar schools. That figure has gone down to 80% today.
In politics, too, there are fewer privately educated members in the current cabinet (50%) than the 2010 coalition cabinet (which had 62%), but the proportion is still slightly higher than Tony Blair’s cabinet (44%) after the 2005 general election.
Sir Peter Lampl, chair of the Sutton Trust, said: “Our research shows that your chances of reaching the top in so many areas of British life are very much greater if you went to an independent school.
“As well as academic achievement, an independent education tends to develop essential skills such as confidence, articulacy and teamwork, which are vital to career success.
“The key to improving social mobility at the top is to open up independent schools to all pupils based on merit not money ... as well as support for highly able students in state schools.”
Russell Hobby, general secretary of school leaders’ union NAHT, called for better – and earlier – careers education in schools. “Once again the Sutton Trust has shown that not all professions are representative of the country at large, something school leaders will read with interest.
“Schools are engines of social mobility, showing that through hard work and application, all pupils can aspire to fulfil their potential, whatever that may be.”
Alan Milburn, chair of the social mobility commission, said: “This report underlines how those from less privileged families are too often shut out from Britain’s top jobs. But it also shows that where firms commit to fairness, progress is possible.
“From the civil service to the law, new schemes to widen access have been announced. But it is time to turn early promise into enduring commitment. Every profession and every large firm should have a clear strategy on social mobility and should publish data showing what impact their strategy is delivering.”
A Department for Education spokesperson defended the government’s record on social mobility and said thanks to its reforms 1.4 million more pupils are being taught in good or outstanding state schools than in 2010.
“University entrants are at an all-time high, with rising numbers of children from disadvantaged backgrounds going to university and the number of disadvantaged students attending Russell Group universities doubling since 2010.
“We are determined to spread this educational excellence everywhere, extending true social mobility for all. We are continuing the pupil premium at current rates for the duration of this parliament, providing billions of pounds to support disadvantaged pupils reach their potential.”
A privately educated elite continues to dominate the UK’s leading professions, taking top jobs in fields as diverse as the law, politics, medicine and journalism, according to new research.
The Sutton Trust educational charity has been carrying out similar surveys for more than a decade, and though it reports “small signs” of progress, this year’s results confirm what has long been known – that if you have a private education, you are considerably more likely to get to the top of British public life.
Although just 7% of the population attend independent fee-paying schools, the survey reveals that almost three quarters (71%) of top military officers were educated privately, with 12% having been taught in comprehensive schools.
In the field of law, 74% of top judges working in the high court and appeals court were privately educated, while in journalism, more than half (51%) of leading print journalists went to independent schools, with one in five having attended comprehensive schools, which currently educate 88% of the population.
In medicine, meanwhile, Sutton Trust research says 61% of the country’s top doctors were educated at independent schools; nearly a quarter (22%) went to grammar school and the remainder to comprehensives.
In politics, the picture is a little better, with under a third (32%) of MPs having been privately educated, though that figure goes up to half of the cabinet, compared with 13% of the shadow cabinet.
Graduates of Oxford and Cambridge universities also continue to dominate the field, though they educate less than 1% of the population. In law, nearly three quarters (74%) of the top judiciary went to Oxbridge; 54% of the country’s leading journalists went to Oxbridge, and just under half (47%) of the cabinet attended Oxbridge, compared with 32% of the shadow cabinet.
The Sutton Trust’s Leading People 2016 report, which is published on Wednesday, tracks the educational backgrounds of leading figures in 10 areas of public life, among them film and music, which make an interesting contrast.
It reveals that award-winning British actors are more than twice as likely to have had a private education than award-winning pop stars. While 42% of British Bafta winners went to an independent school, just 19% of British winners at the Brit music awards were educated privately.
While Eddie Redmayne, star of The Danish Girl; Homeland actor Damian Lewis; and Tom Hiddleston, now starring in the BBC series The Night Manager, famously went to Eton College, the Sutton Trust points out that British music stars like Adele, Imogen Heap and Jessie J found success after attending the state-funded Brit School in Croydon.
The report welcomes a new focus on diversity and professional access, especially in the legal profession and the civil service, and says there are small signs that things may be “slowly changing in certain fields”.
In law, for example, while 76% of top judges attended private schools in the late 1980s, that went down to 75% by the mid-00s and is now at 74%. The report points out leading law firms have adopted a number of social-mobility programmes and the Solicitors Regulation Authority now collects data on solicitors’ educational backgrounds.
In business too, partly because of the internationalisation of top posts, the report says the proportion of FTSE 100 chief executives educated at independent schools has fallen from 70% in the late 1980s to 54% in the late 2000s and 34% today.
And in journalism the tide may be starting to turn; in the mid-80s more than 90% of leading editors had attended either private or grammar schools. That figure has gone down to 80% today.
In politics, too, there are fewer privately educated members in the current cabinet (50%) than the 2010 coalition cabinet (which had 62%), but the proportion is still slightly higher than Tony Blair’s cabinet (44%) after the 2005 general election.
Sir Peter Lampl, chair of the Sutton Trust, said: “Our research shows that your chances of reaching the top in so many areas of British life are very much greater if you went to an independent school.
“As well as academic achievement, an independent education tends to develop essential skills such as confidence, articulacy and teamwork, which are vital to career success.
“The key to improving social mobility at the top is to open up independent schools to all pupils based on merit not money ... as well as support for highly able students in state schools.”
Russell Hobby, general secretary of school leaders’ union NAHT, called for better – and earlier – careers education in schools. “Once again the Sutton Trust has shown that not all professions are representative of the country at large, something school leaders will read with interest.
“Schools are engines of social mobility, showing that through hard work and application, all pupils can aspire to fulfil their potential, whatever that may be.”
Alan Milburn, chair of the social mobility commission, said: “This report underlines how those from less privileged families are too often shut out from Britain’s top jobs. But it also shows that where firms commit to fairness, progress is possible.
“From the civil service to the law, new schemes to widen access have been announced. But it is time to turn early promise into enduring commitment. Every profession and every large firm should have a clear strategy on social mobility and should publish data showing what impact their strategy is delivering.”
A Department for Education spokesperson defended the government’s record on social mobility and said thanks to its reforms 1.4 million more pupils are being taught in good or outstanding state schools than in 2010.
“University entrants are at an all-time high, with rising numbers of children from disadvantaged backgrounds going to university and the number of disadvantaged students attending Russell Group universities doubling since 2010.
“We are determined to spread this educational excellence everywhere, extending true social mobility for all. We are continuing the pupil premium at current rates for the duration of this parliament, providing billions of pounds to support disadvantaged pupils reach their potential.”
Re: Top state grammar vs top independent offer
Please don't ask him we could be here all day and night.mad? wrote:And in summary your point is?
St Albans...........a second tier Indie at best !
Re: Top state grammar vs top independent offer
mad? wrote:And in summary your point is?
Re: Top state grammar vs top independent offer
Published two years ago too - 
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St Albans Dad
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:56 pm
Re: Top state grammar vs top independent offer
I am not making a point. Someone requested some facts and figures so I provided them.mad? wrote:And in summary your point is?
Re: Top state grammar vs top independent offer
Post something up to date then ....
Not everyone aspires to those 'careers' - some people want to live worthwhile lives that help other people.
Not everyone aspires to those 'careers' - some people want to live worthwhile lives that help other people.
Re: Top state grammar vs top independent offer
St Alban's dad, interesting read. Thanks for posting the link.
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masari_pirates
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:18 am
Re: Top state grammar vs top independent offer
How about listing all the things that are important, and give a score for each - compare the score for each of the schools you have an offer from. For example, you can look at (not in any order of importance):
Pastoral care
Class size
Teaching quality - passionate, inspirational
Results - how is the progress documented, school’s GCSE/A level results on potential subjects your child may be interested in
Alumni - how active it is. What support do they provide to the schools in terms of career advice, work experience placements, university selection?
Talk to parents/students at the school in general, their likes/dislikes about the school
Clubs/societies - child's current/future interest
Educational trips
General fit and feeling
Finance - the number of children you have, costs (average yearly cost is approx ay £20k. if you invest that…say average return on investment of 6%, then over say 8-year period, this compounded would amount to approx. £210k.) That money can be used for whatever – seed capital for starting business, investing in property etcetera.
The school will only create an environment for them to prosper. In the end, it all depends on the child and the passion for lifelong learning. If the drive is there, they would succeed at any school.
Pastoral care
Class size
Teaching quality - passionate, inspirational
Results - how is the progress documented, school’s GCSE/A level results on potential subjects your child may be interested in
Alumni - how active it is. What support do they provide to the schools in terms of career advice, work experience placements, university selection?
Talk to parents/students at the school in general, their likes/dislikes about the school
Clubs/societies - child's current/future interest
Educational trips
General fit and feeling
Finance - the number of children you have, costs (average yearly cost is approx ay £20k. if you invest that…say average return on investment of 6%, then over say 8-year period, this compounded would amount to approx. £210k.) That money can be used for whatever – seed capital for starting business, investing in property etcetera.
The school will only create an environment for them to prosper. In the end, it all depends on the child and the passion for lifelong learning. If the drive is there, they would succeed at any school.
