HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Independent Schools as an alternative to Grammar

Moderators: Section Moderators, Forum Moderators

11 Plus Mocks - Practise the real exam experience - Book Now
Choco
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:49 am

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by Choco »

Guest, I totally agree with the points you make - that the results are fantastic at HB and not declining at all, and that all state schools are suffering from funding cuts. Fully agree. I think we'd also fully agree that HB is a great option - which is what I said.

Op asked what the differences were and if there were any differences. I mentioned what some of the differences could be - clearly when £20k is spent per head vs £6k per head, there will be differences. It's a very personal view whether the differences are worth paying for....and I said that unless someone has shed loads of money so their family isn't affected by paying fees, the extras become very expensive indeed, especially when there is such a fantastic state option available.

I think we are both big fans of HB from the sound of it.
Amber
Posts: 8058
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:59 am

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by Amber »

Guest55 wrote:
Choco wrote:I would say that you can see the difference that a school being funded by dwindling state budgets compared to hefty fees makes, but if you are pushed for cash, HB would be a great option, if you get an offer, and not worth paying the fees for the extras.
Choco - that's VERY biased sentence. Most state schools are short of money but doing fine thank you very much. I see no dip in results or anything else around here - your post is scaremongering, nothing more, nothing less.
I think Choco was saying that on the whole it isn't worth paying, unless you are super rich and can access one of the very few schools which she believes to be utterly exceptional, and then only if you are wealthy enough to do it without it making the rest of the family suffer.

Personally I think most state schools are suffering awfully under the current government and while I agree that their results may not be impacted because of the professionalism of staff, the situation in many is reaching crisis point, rather like in some hospitals, and this must necessarily affect staff morale. The mess caused by chronic underfunding in the state sector will in my view take years to sort out, even decades, and I hold out very little hope for the future of either education or health in our country for years to come. Private and grammar schools are two sides of the same inequality coin - one is just a lot richer than the other!
Middlesexmum
Posts: 1008
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:54 am

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by Middlesexmum »

I just asked my (HBS) dd her opinion: she says she finds HBS a very intense environment and thinks perhaps St Helen's is less so (having observed her older sister). But my dds are very different personalities, oldest is naturally more relaxed and dd2 can be quite intense so it's hard to tell if this pressure comes from dd2 herself or the school. But dd2 says that most of her year group are feeling the pressure, they are often in competition with each other regarding how much extra work they are doing and so on.
Choco
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:49 am

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by Choco »

Amber, thank you - that was exactly what I was saying.

And I agree that funding of state schools is very worrying. It's not just about resources, but the impact on staff too - having to teach bigger classes, having less preparation periods, plus having to deal with the changes to exam specifications with limited new resources because of funding, and the pressure for results. It's not surprising that morale is low and many teachers leave the profession or move over to indoeendnet schools. And I agree too, that in the conditions, teachers in places like HB (and many other schools too of course) are doing a fantastic job. There are many skilled and able teachers who are great at getting the best from clever girls and boys and who are continuing to offer a fantastic education and deliver great results. That's why it's possible to say that in my view, for most people, in you have a place at a school like HB it simply isn't worth paying for the alternative (I would note that I said for most people and most schools)

I hope that funding improves and teacher training recruitment improves (last year government targets for this were only reached in 2/26 areas) and that the government manages to improve its existing retention record, where currently teachers are leaving the profession within a few years of joining and the no.s of experienced teachers as a proportion of the total is steadily falling. I hope that the government will do something about 10 years of real terms pay cuts to make teaching more attractive and address the issues of workload and pressure. If they let these things continue, then all of the education sector will suffer - both state and independent schools. It would be a terrible shame if conditions and funding in state schools led to a teacher crisis so great, that the fantastic standards currently delivered by schools like HB, simply couldn't be anymore. Fortunately, we are not at that point yet, but as Amber mentioned worrying for the future, I do too. It's really important to acknowledge what is happening in schools to funding and staff recruitment and retention - I wouldn't call it scaremongering,but factual information and teachers everywhere would be able to confirm that funding is increasingly difficult and recruitment often a struggle too.

And what a shame to be talking about these things, when people are excited about their children getting offers from fantastic schools, and the bright futures that these children have.
Amber
Posts: 8058
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:59 am

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by Amber »

Choco wrote: I hope that funding improves and teacher training recruitment improves (last year government targets for this were only reached in 2/26 areas.
Fear not Choco - the formidable Mr Gibb is onto it:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/educa ... 06551.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Aspiring teachers will be allowed to fail multiple entry tests before starting in the job in an effort to ease the recruitment crisis, the Government has announced.

Would-be teachers will get an unlimited number of attempts at passing compulsory numeracy and literacy skills tests needed to enter the profession, education minister Nick Gibb said.

Candidates who failed the entry test three times in a row were previously stopped from retaking the assessment for two years.
RedPanda
Posts: 283
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:56 am

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by RedPanda »

Amber wrote:Personally I think most state schools are suffering awfully under the current government and while I agree that their results may not be impacted because of the professionalism of staff, the situation in many is reaching crisis point
I wonder when we'll reach the crisis point. Teachers and departments do amazing things with limited budgets. I'm not sure there is much more they can shave off.

Smartboard/OHP/internet is a godsend though. If a state school classroom has this (and a savvy teacher) then the extra money an independent will spend on classroom resources will count for little in a lot of subjects. Of course some teachers (in both sectors) don't use them but those guys will retire soon anyway :)
CestMoi
Posts: 221
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:01 pm

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by CestMoi »

All wonderful schools - you can't go wrong!
If you are thinking of HBS, check out your options for sports if your child is sporty. Most children travel by the private coach in the early years so it can be hard to stay back for sports. Just something to consider..
canadad
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:24 pm

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by canadad »

Middlesexmum wrote:I just asked my (HBS) dd her opinion: she says she finds HBS a very intense environment and thinks perhaps St Helen's is less so (having observed her older sister). But my dds are very different personalities, oldest is naturally more relaxed and dd2 can be quite intense so it's hard to tell if this pressure comes from dd2 herself or the school. But dd2 says that most of her year group are feeling the pressure, they are often in competition with each other regarding how much extra work they are doing and so on.
I found this interesting. Do you think it is because of the nature of the kids who go to HB that it is competitive - or that the testing promotes that? Having been in Singapore, I understand a little about intensity. I think that testing can be good in the right context, helping understand weaker areas for follow up. But testing for testings sake is a waste of time.

When you say "they are often in competition with each other regarding how much extra work they are doing and so on" - are the kids doing significantly extra than the curriculum and classes recommends. I'm all for a bit of competition as it helps drive learning, but not at the expense of a childhood!
Middlesexmum
Posts: 1008
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:54 am

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by Middlesexmum »

[quote="canadad"
I found this interesting. Do you think it is because of the nature of the kids who go to HB that it is competitive - or that the testing promotes that? [/quote]

I think it's the former canadad. Some (many?) HBS girls come from homes where education is valued above everything else to the detriment of extra curricular activities or social events sadly. Dd tells me some of her classmates are scared to take home test results that might be deemed as disappointing because their parents will be cross; others are 'not allowed' to take part in activities because they need to study.

With regard to the testing, I've been a bit disappointed about the amount of it TBH. These are clever, hard-working girls; they will achieve top grades at GCSE so the constant testing does seem a bit pointless and just adds stress. I always tell dd I want her to ENJOY her education, it should be about learning for its own sake not just to achieve a string of A*s.

Dd tells me some of the girls appear to spend hours preparing beautifully written up notes and there is an air of competition how much 'extra' work they do. But we are talking about teenage girls here who are prone to exaggerate so how accurate this is I don't know!
Fab mum
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:05 pm

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by Fab mum »

My daughter is at HBS and like your Dd we were in a similar situation re school offers. My dd is very happy at HBS . She does lots of extra curricular activities eg School Netball team. LAMDA and she also does robotics. Outside school she plays a musical instrument and has carried on with swimming.

The girls are very motivated and only want the best results. The teachers are supportive and want the girls to do well . The feedback at parents evening is always positive.

The school is fantastic and we have no regrets about choosing HBS.
Post Reply
11 Plus Mocks - Practise the real exam experience - Book Now