HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Independent Schools as an alternative to Grammar

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Stokers
Posts: 358
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:48 pm

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by Stokers »

Middlesexmum, my DD is at HBS - albeit Yr8 and so not yet at the business end of the school - and she shows no sign of being under pressure or feeling a need to keep up. Also, at the recent parents evening, I was told explicitly that testing is severely restricted as school policy and that the girls are told, very clearly, that they are only to spend 30 mins on each piece of homework. In fact, DD is more likely to have no homework than too much. And, much like fab mum, the only restriction on extra - curricular is the time to do it in.
dreamon
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:46 pm

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by dreamon »

We were in this position a few years ago.

As other posters have mentioned, HBS is quite different to St Helen's in terms of 'intensity'. Our experience has been similar to that of Middlesexmum. The school works extremely hard to promote a healthy work/life balance but you will find some girls who work over and beyond what is required by the school. My dd is often sympathetic towards those girls who fear their parents will be cross if they fail to bring home a 'gold standard' report but, you will also find many girls like ours, who work hard and have fun, who are challenged and enthused about what they learn. It really depends on how your daughter would feel in a competitive, challenging environment. Yes, HBS does have smaller funds but the teachers (for the most part) are brilliant at what they do.

St Helens offers a wider mix of abilities and is also a fine school but will offer more varied school trips, sports facilities etc.

It will depend on what aspects of the school your daughter will use.

For us, HBS had everything that our dd held dear.

Bear in mind also that many parents pay for extra tuition in specific subjects coming up to GCSE/ALevel etc so that may well be a factor to consider in the years to come, especially if you are at a fee-paying school.
canadad
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:24 pm

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by canadad »

dreamon wrote:We were in this position a few years ago.

As other posters have mentioned, HBS is quite different to St Helen's in terms of 'intensity'. Our experience has been similar to that of Middlesexmum. The school works extremely hard to promote a healthy work/life balance but you will find some girls who work over and beyond what is required by the school. My dd is often sympathetic towards those girls who fear their parents will be cross if they fail to bring home a 'gold standard' report but, you will also find many girls like ours, who work hard and have fun, who are challenged and enthused about what they learn. It really depends on how your daughter would feel in a competitive, challenging environment. Yes, HBS does have smaller funds but the teachers (for the most part) are brilliant at what they do.

St Helens offers a wider mix of abilities and is also a fine school but will offer more varied school trips, sports facilities etc.

It will depend on what aspects of the school your daughter will use.

For us, HBS had everything that our dd held dear.

Bear in mind also that many parents pay for extra tuition in specific subjects coming up to GCSE/ALevel etc so that may well be a factor to consider in the years to come, especially if you are at a fee-paying school.
It's nice to hear others who have made very similar decisions. I'm slowly coming to opinion that HBS is probably a good option for us. My daughter has seen being in the middle of a class with kids of pushy tiger mums and being at the top of a class of kids who are into a mix of things. Both seem like good options. If we don't get HBS, then St Helens is an excellent fallback.

I had a very good discussion with Mrs Short, the head at St Helens, who I was very impressed with. She talked about how students shouldnt be tutored, about education being a marathon, not a sprint and how a well rounded
education is so important.

That said, I have spoken to a few parents and friends of those at St Helens and other private schools, pre and post 11+ who seem to be spending another £3000-5000 a year on tuition! This astonishes me - but I think I am little naive to the system. I can understand top ups and prepping for 11+ where, for example NVR is not taught, but going to a private school and then tutoring to keep up with the joneses sounds bizarre.

Is this normal? I may indeed pay at some point, but at the moment I would see that the education is a joint concern of the parent, teacher and student. Thoughts welcome.
ToadMum
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:41 pm
Location: Essex

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by ToadMum »

canadad wrote:Is this normal? I may indeed pay at some point, but at the moment I would see that the education is a joint concern of the parent, teacher and student. Thoughts welcome.
Keeping a dog and barking yourself?

Our DC have been brought up to have pride in achieving what they achieve by their own efforts. Which includes taking notice of the teaching they are getting and backing it up with their own work

If any of their friends at their non-superselective local grammar schools have / had outside coaching, none has mentioned. And obviously, none of ours has, although I did buy DD the CGP GCSE Chemistry book when she was struggling a bit - and gave her a metaphorical boot in the backside towards her school's lunchtime Chemistry drop in sessions. To be fair, the book was all she asked for - not, 'Mum, I want a tutor!'. She got an A. (And four other As, two A*s, two 8s and a 7, which we were all pretty happy with, although I understand that in some households those results would be the cause of much wailing and gnashing of teeth).

Sadly, I do know of one boy in DS2's year who was being tutored during the first term of year 7. I don't know the parents, so have no idea whether this was due to some kind of misunderstanding on their part, or whether he had actually discovered very early on that there is more to getting on in an academically selective school than being coached into it :( .
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx
mitasol
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:59 am

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by mitasol »

Is this normal?
A while ago some of the papers set the figure at one child in four received tutoring out of school. http://www.itv.com/news/2015-09-04/one- ... hool-work/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Middlesexmum
Posts: 1008
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:54 am

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by Middlesexmum »

canadad wrote: Is this normal? I may indeed pay at some point, but at the moment I would see that the education is a joint concern of the parent, teacher and student. Thoughts welcome.
canadad - there is a lot of negative thinking regarding private tuition. Some people think it's a terrible idea, or refuse to do it on principle, or think it's the fault of the school for not providing good enough teaching.

I have never heard of people spending such huge sums on tuition though, but who knows, maybe it does go on.

My oldest dd (who was at St Helen's) had a small amount of private tuition for Maths and Science in Year 11 only. By small amount, it was no more than 4 or 5 sessions for each with a reasonably priced (£30-35/hour) tutor. She had requested it and I agreed because - a) it was good for her confidence, and b) having things explained by a different teacher in the comfort of your own home can make a huge difference. Her teachers at St Helen's were wonderful and provided extra revision sessions after school in the run up to the exams which dd attended. But the 1-to-1 just provided a little bit more.

She got an A in Maths and A*A* for dual Science. Would she have achieved those grades without the tuition? Possibly. But I don't see any harm in giving your child a bit of a confidence boost if that's what's needed.
Middlesexmum
Posts: 1008
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:54 am

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by Middlesexmum »

Stokers wrote: girls are told, very clearly, that they are only to spend 30 mins on each piece of homework.
Interesting. I was discussing this with my dd last night. She was a bit sceptical about this tbh. The school may say don't spend longer than 30 minutes, but in reality, no girl wants to hand in a half finished piece of homework saying she ran out of time. It just doesn't happen.

In Year 10 it is supposed to be 1 hour of homework per subject per week. But again, the reality is sometimes homework takes longer. Dd doesn't time herself doing homework, she gets what she needs to get done.
fairyelephant
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Location: N London

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by fairyelephant »

DS has this 30 minute (or 45 now in year 10) rule, he is at Highgate. He has always applied it quite ruthlessly nd been encouraged to do that by the school, no teacher has ever said there is a problem with this and over time he has got better at finishing within the time - which is exactly the point.
On the tutoring point I agree that it shouldn’t really be necessary. DD year 11 has had no tutoring and neither has DS. DS struggles with English but we have spoken to school about this and he has extra help at school, he really shouldn’t need any outside of school. Tutors are teachers after all and school is full of those, if you ask they will help.
CandyCrush
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:50 am

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by CandyCrush »

My dd is in Y10 at St Helen's and similar to the OP, is also in receipt of a scholarship.

St Helen's have been upping their game for a few years now and I'm confident their place in the league tables will climb upwards over the next couple of years.

Many of the girls in the top maths and science sets turned down places at Habs, NLCS and HBS for generous scholarships at St Helen's and this will become evident in their academic results soon. Consequently, my dd is working at a fast pace with some very smart and able girls.

They have injected a lot of capital into the school over recent years which makes the school very modern, light and airy. They have a new dining room with cashless catering and the new music block is currently under construction. The new sixth form block opened this school year.

Their school is very well administered with an electronic mail communication system - even parental replies are electronic. Most of the school's operations are paperless and very efficient.

School trips were limited when we first joined but even this has changed with more day trips and school holidays on offer.

We like the strong ties with MTS and dd goes to MTS every Friday for CCF. They also get together with MTS for regular concerts (the fun loud ones!) to raise money for a children's charity called Phab.

To give a balanced view, St Helen's next challenge is to retain these very able girls to stay for Sixth form so it ultimately becomes a school of first choice.
Stokers
Posts: 358
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:48 pm

Re: HB vs Habs vs Sthn vs NLCS

Post by Stokers »

Middlesexmum wrote:
Stokers wrote: girls are told, very clearly, that they are only to spend 30 mins on each piece of homework.
Interesting. I was discussing this with my dd last night. She was a bit sceptical about this tbh. The school may say don't spend longer than 30 minutes, but in reality, no girl wants to hand in a half finished piece of homework saying she ran out of time. It just doesn't happen.

In Year 10 it is supposed to be 1 hour of homework per subject per week. But again, the reality is sometimes homework takes longer. Dd doesn't time herself doing homework, she gets what she needs to get done.
We must be the odd ones out then! DD sticks to homework guidelines - it does her, or the school, no favours if she spends longer than she should. How does the school know if she is coping if they think she is completing work in 30 mins but the reality is it is taking much longer. It's also not very good training for exams to work without time limits.

In fact, I would suggest that not setting limits is one of the prime causes of academic anxiety (I work in a secondary school). Students, and particularly girls, who work without clear limits sometimes struggle to 'finish' pieces of work or believe it is good enough to submit. I'd also argue that it encourages procrastination and mind-wandering to work without a clear end point.

OP, my original point was for you not to think that HBS was full of workaholics, tested to death and unable to participate in extra-curricular activities. Our reality is very different.
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