Schools..Bucks/North London
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Re: Schools..Bucks/North London
Agree with Scary re. Piper's – not especially academic but great pastorally and very strong in areas such as dance and drama. The pupils I have met from there are certainly a good advert for the school.
However, I do have a different opinion on RMS. Two of my closest friends have daughters there and are very happy with it, both pastorally and academically, to the extent that both are intending to send younger siblings to the school in the next year or two. The girls I know there are too young to have taken GCSEs yet, but the parents (all of whom have degrees themselves) don't seem to have major concerns about academic standards.
I would also add that in my experience Piper's is more of a moneyed playground than RMS, if that is a concern.
Again, all anecdotal but based on information from current pupils and their parents.
However, I do have a different opinion on RMS. Two of my closest friends have daughters there and are very happy with it, both pastorally and academically, to the extent that both are intending to send younger siblings to the school in the next year or two. The girls I know there are too young to have taken GCSEs yet, but the parents (all of whom have degrees themselves) don't seem to have major concerns about academic standards.
I would also add that in my experience Piper's is more of a moneyed playground than RMS, if that is a concern.
Again, all anecdotal but based on information from current pupils and their parents.
Re: Schools..Bucks/North London
On that point, the following thread may help you.
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum ... 31&t=53591" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum ... 31&t=53591" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Schools..Bucks/North London
Thank you for all your comments, much appreciated.
Have been hearing other similarly positive feedback on RMS, so definitely seems worth another visit. I think perhaps it's a bit of a generalised misnomer to label Bucks indies as being 'less academic' overall, particularly where tutoring to test has become such rife practice in terms of grammar test preparation! I'd imagine the ability intake may be broader at some schools yes, but it would be interesting to measure that ability throughout the system, with a measurement that hasn't involved two years and beyond, of intense preparation. Not every child at indie, actually takes the 11plus. I know many people, family included, who have chosen to stay independent throughout. And their children have academically excelled. And I also know people who have achieved far less through GS, yet somehow felt the mere fact they had made it into GS, somehow entitles them to some superior badge of academic honour! It's a tired old topic I know, but I am always somewhat surprised when I hear it being said. I'm sure there must be some people who choose indie over GS in the interests of supporting academic growth and interest, as opposed to simply being swayed by the lure an extra curricular edge!
Have been hearing other similarly positive feedback on RMS, so definitely seems worth another visit. I think perhaps it's a bit of a generalised misnomer to label Bucks indies as being 'less academic' overall, particularly where tutoring to test has become such rife practice in terms of grammar test preparation! I'd imagine the ability intake may be broader at some schools yes, but it would be interesting to measure that ability throughout the system, with a measurement that hasn't involved two years and beyond, of intense preparation. Not every child at indie, actually takes the 11plus. I know many people, family included, who have chosen to stay independent throughout. And their children have academically excelled. And I also know people who have achieved far less through GS, yet somehow felt the mere fact they had made it into GS, somehow entitles them to some superior badge of academic honour! It's a tired old topic I know, but I am always somewhat surprised when I hear it being said. I'm sure there must be some people who choose indie over GS in the interests of supporting academic growth and interest, as opposed to simply being swayed by the lure an extra curricular edge!
Re: Schools..Bucks/North London
There ARE a number of less academic Private schools in Bucks full of non-qualifiers or children who didn't take the Transfer Test. Wycombe Abbey is the one I can think of that does not fit the mould; what do you think are the others?
Parents who choose Private education would look further afield in my opinion.
Parents who choose Private education would look further afield in my opinion.
Re: Schools..Bucks/North London
I know two sisters who attended Wycombe Abbey, and neither 'passed' the 11plus. One had more preparation than the other, and their scores were not in any way reflective of their relative strengths. I honestly don't think you can base the academic strength of any school, on the cohort being mostly 11plus non achievers, or indeed, non takers?!
My eldest dc attends what might be classed here, as a 'not so academic' school, but has achieved grades to rival or exceed most of her GS friends, and indeed her peers in general have achieved very well overall. If their academic strength & progress was based on the fact they are a mix of non-achievers and non-takers, then it hardly stacks up in that regards!
In our younger daughter's prep school, parents are given guidance on 11plus potential, based on CAT performances etc..and are told they should be averaging at least 120. But there are still parents who just think extra tuition is the answer! One to one on individual subjects, 11 plus foundation courses for year 4, the main course supreme for year 5, and a few booster sessions in between...what on earth does all this achieve?! I've lost count of the number of kids I know who have performed mediocrely at GS, on the back of intense pressure to get there.
It is a huge disservice to label schools filled with children who either haven't achieved or taken the transfer test, as not being academic. And I'd say there are a few schools that could lay testimony to that.
My eldest dc attends what might be classed here, as a 'not so academic' school, but has achieved grades to rival or exceed most of her GS friends, and indeed her peers in general have achieved very well overall. If their academic strength & progress was based on the fact they are a mix of non-achievers and non-takers, then it hardly stacks up in that regards!
In our younger daughter's prep school, parents are given guidance on 11plus potential, based on CAT performances etc..and are told they should be averaging at least 120. But there are still parents who just think extra tuition is the answer! One to one on individual subjects, 11 plus foundation courses for year 4, the main course supreme for year 5, and a few booster sessions in between...what on earth does all this achieve?! I've lost count of the number of kids I know who have performed mediocrely at GS, on the back of intense pressure to get there.
It is a huge disservice to label schools filled with children who either haven't achieved or taken the transfer test, as not being academic. And I'd say there are a few schools that could lay testimony to that.
Last edited by mm23292 on Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Schools..Bucks/North London
Sorry what you say is not backed up by data or GS would not be getting everyone through GCSEs at grade C/4+. I do know teachers at most schools in Bukcs and so it is not just 'my' knowledge here.
Bucks test selects the top third so there is a huge variation in that group. The only over-tutored children I taught were from one Private school we all knew about ...
Bucks test selects the top third so there is a huge variation in that group. The only over-tutored children I taught were from one Private school we all knew about ...
Re: Schools..Bucks/North London
Sorry Guest, I was specifically referring to indie vs GS, as in most of the independants I know of or have looked at, have at least some form of selection procedure. So although their ability profile may be slighter wider, than that of the GS cohort, there are also many pupils of higher level abilities, who may have missed the mark for transfer test, or not have taken it at all. That's why I felt it was wrong to label a school on that basis. We all know the transfer test system has its obvious flaws.
All I am saying is that this 'top third' measurement is by no means a well cast net! I know the stats are fairly clear in terms of C+ attainment at GCSE, but I would have thought that most Bucks indie schools are attaining similarly high percentages of C+ at gcse? Or perhaps I am wrong?!
Having said that, I know many kids who've had clean sweeps of Grade Cs at GS, which might plug the stats nicely, but is by most academic standards, a little mediocre. Interestingly, my eldest dc's Mid year cat scores, predicted higher level grades in most subjects, and she's certainly not the proverbial high flyer. But she achieved those predictions with considerable chilled out ease. As did most of her class, bar the odd surprise here & there. And reassuringly, all her A level choices were A*/A at gcse. Her 6th form had a small intake of gcse rejects from the nearby grammars, who are decidedly struggling at A level too. So to use success at 11plus as any comparative for academic differentiation in their case, is decidedly way off the mark.
Of course that's just my experience, so by no means reflective of everywhere.
All I am saying is that this 'top third' measurement is by no means a well cast net! I know the stats are fairly clear in terms of C+ attainment at GCSE, but I would have thought that most Bucks indie schools are attaining similarly high percentages of C+ at gcse? Or perhaps I am wrong?!
Having said that, I know many kids who've had clean sweeps of Grade Cs at GS, which might plug the stats nicely, but is by most academic standards, a little mediocre. Interestingly, my eldest dc's Mid year cat scores, predicted higher level grades in most subjects, and she's certainly not the proverbial high flyer. But she achieved those predictions with considerable chilled out ease. As did most of her class, bar the odd surprise here & there. And reassuringly, all her A level choices were A*/A at gcse. Her 6th form had a small intake of gcse rejects from the nearby grammars, who are decidedly struggling at A level too. So to use success at 11plus as any comparative for academic differentiation in their case, is decidedly way off the mark.
Of course that's just my experience, so by no means reflective of everywhere.
Re: Schools..Bucks/North London
The full results of private schools are rarely published and those I have seen do have far more grades below C/4 than GS. Remember Private schools do not need to publish all their results .... but GS do!
Certainly the ones I know are by no means considered 'academic' and try to poach GS students for their Sixth Forms!
Certainly the ones I know are by no means considered 'academic' and try to poach GS students for their Sixth Forms!
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kenyancowgirl
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Re: Schools..Bucks/North London
I'm not sure I really understand your motivation OP. You say you are considering your child taking the transfer test but have then spent a significant amount of time telling everyone how relatively poorly performing the Bucks GS are to the indies? Or am I missing something?
There are good teachers and bad teachers in every institution, there are good cohorts and less good cohorts, there are definitely poor independents (who play on parents who assume paying for something makes it better) and some better ones. One would assume that a school with a selective intake should perform better than one without - whether private or GS...although the "selectiveness" of an indie can vary tremendously...look at the progress a child makes, look at their interests and whether the school would meet them. Most of all, don't make decisions about your child or for them - too often parents on this forum tell us their child has a passion to be x but it is very apparent it is the parent that has that passion, not the child.
There are good teachers and bad teachers in every institution, there are good cohorts and less good cohorts, there are definitely poor independents (who play on parents who assume paying for something makes it better) and some better ones. One would assume that a school with a selective intake should perform better than one without - whether private or GS...although the "selectiveness" of an indie can vary tremendously...look at the progress a child makes, look at their interests and whether the school would meet them. Most of all, don't make decisions about your child or for them - too often parents on this forum tell us their child has a passion to be x but it is very apparent it is the parent that has that passion, not the child.
Re: Schools..Bucks/North London
At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, can I just point out that RMS isn't actually in Bucks!
Yes, it's relatively accessible to those who live in the south of the county, but it's a North London/Herts school which draws from a much wider cohort than girls who haven't taken – or haven't done well in – the Bucks 11+ transfer test. School buses run from Radlett, Bushey, Watford, Pinner, Northwood and Stanmore, to name just a few. It's also easily accessible on the Chiltern and Metropolitan train lines; for example, you could live in central London and be at RMS inside an hour.
I'll stop now as I risk sounding like promotional brochure and I don't work for the school, honest!
I just think it's worth making the point about location as RMS is quite different from some Bucks-based indies which, as Guest55 rightly says, tend towards the less academic.
Yes, it's relatively accessible to those who live in the south of the county, but it's a North London/Herts school which draws from a much wider cohort than girls who haven't taken – or haven't done well in – the Bucks 11+ transfer test. School buses run from Radlett, Bushey, Watford, Pinner, Northwood and Stanmore, to name just a few. It's also easily accessible on the Chiltern and Metropolitan train lines; for example, you could live in central London and be at RMS inside an hour.
I'll stop now as I risk sounding like promotional brochure and I don't work for the school, honest!
I just think it's worth making the point about location as RMS is quite different from some Bucks-based indies which, as Guest55 rightly says, tend towards the less academic.
