May 2007 Sats

[Guest]

hi mad mum i think i am also mad like you as i totally agree with you. i believe if child is happy to do any extra work then what's wrong in it. coming to teachers, well they do so much hard work, trying to bring best out of children . i just can't understand how peaole can say or think that it is only teachers responsibility to teach childern and not to push your child to their full potential by teachers or parents. how come these people can complaint about pushing children to get better results for SATs, wether they are relevent to teachers, schools, pupils, parents or CC. oh wow these people who don't believe in extra work so called "pressure" i wonder if they ever sit with their children to see if they have done even their homeworks forget about recognisig, solving, explaining and giving enough practice on those points of their weaknesses. then why these people seek only good schools with good results for their children to get addmission. can i ask these people at the end of the day who is the one who is goig to benefit of todays hardwork of course my answer would be, ME as parent i would be proud of my child as he will learn the value of hardwork, TEACHERS they will get reward for their hardwork (with 20-30 kids) as job satisfaction, SCHOOLS theywill have good name and above all OUR CHILDREN who will learn better values and have bright future. i am not a teacheror anything, i am just a mother of 9 years and 3 1/2 years old and i don't mean everybody thinks that we should leave evrything on teachers to teach and child to learn then what is our contribution towards our kids bright future. a teacher is responsible for 20- 30 children's education every year cant we as parent contribute in this process for our own children for god sake. what is a teacher going to gain from good results and what are we going to lose i think some people should think carefully about this issue. at last i we like to remind THOSE PARENTS that it is a fact that more a child study their brain gets more sharp. span of boredom doesn't stay long anyways. thanks for reading this and sorry if someone feels offended by reading this. thanks.

I was pleased to read all your comments re. my posting - glad Im not the only one who feels like this! With regard to the comment about encouraging my daughter in her SATs for her own benefit in Year 7 and further attainment in KS3, all I can say is that after 9 months of extra tuition for her 11+, if she isn't already far and away prepared for the SATs then I give up! Of course I don't know if she'll pass (although I have everything crossed!) but I do know that since she has been preparing for her 11+ she has consistently done well in her class tests - whatever they may be. So if she gets a good SATs result, I feel it will be in some way attributed to the extra work she has been putting in.

[sj355]

What is all this fuss about the SATS? Compared to what our children go through by taking the tests in grammar schools, independents etc, these are purely a walk in the park. I have copies of last year's SATS and compared to the just mentioned tests, they are a joke. Add to this the fact that the children do not have to pass anything, it just a test that the schools go through; I have told my kid to not even think about them (in any case he does not!)

If your child is stressed about them then get the Revision Guides for the three subjects of Key Stage 2 National tests (Schofield & Sims) in WH Smith. I bought the Science one (3.95) for my son because he asked me to as he believed tha he had missed some topics because he was away from his school for some of the exams. He read half it and answered "the test yourself questions in 90 mins"! He will do the rest, and then I will give him the SATS of the last 3 years in Science to practice. But do that only if the child actually asks you to do so (he has obviously had no such worries for Maths or English).

[SJ]

Having read all of the posts on this thread I just wondered if I could have your comments regarding the following:

My son received high level 4's in year 5, but was expected to get level 5 in maths and missed it by one mark(or so I was told) and is expected to get level 5's in Yr 6 May 2007. He passed the 11+ EXTREMELY WELL in Sept 2006 (with a little DIY practice) and has changed primary schools in Sept 2006 just a couple of days before sitting the 11+.

My questions are with those SAT results in yr 5 but a VERY GOOD pass in the 11+ do you think a grammar school is applicable and is it in his new primary schools "advantage" to ensure he puts the work in to get level 5's or could they say that as all of the other SATS were in a different county and were "UNOFFICIAL" as his previous primary school chose to sit SAT exams every year, that they were not correct?

Just a thought, I am not saying that they would do this or that a grammar school is not the way to go, but I am just interested in your comments, especially about the change of county/primary schools/unofficilal SATS in previous years

[Guest]

What is all this fuss about the SATS? Compared to what our children go through by taking the tests in grammar schools, independents etc, these are purely a walk in the park. I have copies of last year's SATS and compared to the just mentioned tests, they are a joke. Add to this the fact that the children do not have to pass anything, it just a test that the schools go through; I have told my kid to not even think about them (in any case he does not!)

I completely agree that if your child has sat entrance/11+ exams that include English/maths the SATS should be a breeze. There can be no comparison between the paper styles. If you have concerns about science SATS then CGP do a nice revision guide (thats really easy for an 11 year old to read) that covers all the topics that may crop up.

However, as a word of warning some comps do use the SATS results to stream kids and predict furture results in maths/English so achieving level 4 rather than 5 could potentially disadvantage your child if they don't make it to grammar. Some GCSE's are tiered and a lower SATS grade may mean your child is sat for perhaps an intermediate maths paper rather than a higher maths paper. Just something to consider in the scheme of things!!

[Guest55]

It's the KS1 NC levels that are used to measure value-added - so if your child got level 3s they should improve to level 5 in Y6. It doesn't matter where your child was at school as they are passed on via the pupils UPN [unique pupil number].

The y3,y4 and y5 tests are optional - they are standardised but not all schools do them. They are used to check pupils are making progress.
More information about theses optional tests is on:

http://www.qca.org.uk/12310.html

This has an index on the left with the level boundaries etc.

If your child is on track for at least two level 5s they should be OK in a Grammar school - I found that pupils who had 3 level 4s whatever their VR score did struggle.

[Guest]

It's the KS1 NC levels that are used to measure value-added - so if your child got level 3s they should improve to level 5 in Y6. It doesn't matter where your child was at school as they are passed on via the pupils UPN [unique pupil number].

Very interesting I didn't know that. That means my child who got 2a's across the board at KS1 and level 5s at KS2 has a better VA (from the schools perspective) than my child who got level 3s across the board at KS1 and is predicted 5s at KS2 (but cannot sit a higher paper even though he would be more than capable). How does this translate to secondary school? If we say that both children achieve exactly the same GCSE results the first child must make his secondary school look good from a VA point to view as his learning could be seen to have progressed at a faster rate.
As a teacher guest55 do you think this could potentially cause problems for slow starters. ie. label them as lower achievers even though this may not be the case. I also wonder what the impact of low VA scores has on some schools as they may be seen as less desirable by some parents despite being full of high flyers. Or maybe I just have the wrong end of the stick!!

[Guest55]

Good points guest.

Yes - if you have lots of pupils who get level 3 in KS1 then go on to get level 5s - value added is OK rather than great. However if you look at the results plus the value added it should be easy to interpret this - what should ring alarm bells is low VA plus low % level 5s at KS2.

At secondary school someone entering with a level 4 should have a value added target of 6 at KS3 - but a good school won't stop pushing if they can make more progress! So 'slow starters' should catch up -

You should look at KS2 to KS4 value added rather than KS2 to KS3 and KS3 to KS4 - it's hard for Grammar to get Value added in KS4 if they've got Maths level 8 [same argument as Primaries with level 3 at KS1]

Hope this helps!

[Guest]

thank you guest55. It just goes to show that you need to scratch beneath the surface to interpret league tables accurately. Even then I think thats quite difficult to do especially with the new VA that includes ESL, free school meals etc when there are no readily available figures to help you interpret the data in a meaningful way.

I'm glad to see you say that good schools will push kids and not just let them rest on their laurels as I do worry from time to time that this is not the case.

[hermanmunster]

Crumbs what an intriguing discussion about SATS - I had no idea that they created such feelings!
FWIW many kids at private school don't do them and the grammar schools just accept the fact that they won't have a SATS mark for them - hasn't seemd to cause any stress so far.

[Guest]

FWIW many kids at private school don't do them and the grammar schools just accept the fact that they won't have a SATS mark for them - hasn't seemd to cause any stress so far.

For what its worth hermanmunster the best thing that could happen is for SATS to be abandoned. If private schools can happily educate children without SATS then so can state schools. The whole primary curriculum is so orientated around these tests that some teachers spend extraordinary amounts of time 'preparing' children with the net result that kids don't always get a well balanced education. When I have highlighted areas within the primary curriculum in the past where my child has struggled I have been told on more than one occaision 'don't worry they will pass their SATS' - I'm sure you can guess my response!! Some teachers want the kudos of many level 5 achievers in their class and if that means cramming past papers for weeks - then so be it (Having said that I know there are many critics of the system within education). What many forget is that at the end of the day these are primarily a measure of the schools ability to raise a childs educational standard at a pre-defined rate rather a life defining moment for the child itself. After all these are not GCSEs, A levels or degrees. I've never asked for SATS results when interviewing for a new member of staff!!