Tracking Of Levels

Key Stages 1-2 and SATs advice

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mystery
Posts: 8927
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:56 pm

Re: Tracking Of Levels

Post by mystery »

A child who achieved 2b at KS1 (kind of "average" but too many children get it for it to really be average ) would be expected to get 4b by the end of year 6 - so two whole levels or 6 sublevels in 4 years. So this is why "average" progress is viewed to be approx 2 sub-levels per year - but really it is 1.5 sublevels per year rounded up - for those teacher who can't do fractions maybe?

So a 2a child would be expected to get 4a, a 3c child to get 5c, a 3b child to get 5b etc etc. But these are all just rule of thumb things to give schools and idea on their progress systems whether a child is doing OK or not - so of they make more than 1.5 sublevels per annum that's great, if less than this it's not great .......... with no real thought as to whether that is a good rate of progress for that particular individual or not ....... clearly you would expect the brighter child to also make faster progress .... unless you were teaching to the level you were expecting at the end.

KS1 progress is more of a mystery - following the reasoning above to get a 5b at end of year 6 (and many children do nationally - they are not gold-dust) you would have to be 3b at the end of year 2, which would mean being the equivalent of a 2b at the end of reception. This would be a very high standard, and even less achievable with the way the Early Years Foundation Stage currently operates. So children must be expected to make some amazing progress in year 1 and 2 if they are going to be predicted to get level 5s at the end of KS2. So this could account for why some children appear to make "sudden leaps" - it's the prediction and measurement system that is weird, and many of the "great leaps" children take at school are just because it is possible to teach a brighter child at a faster pace and get some significant improvement in NC levels; I suspect not a lot of it is due to huge developmental leaps relative to other points in time.

The school measures are not particularly consistent - my daughter's school file for example shows here reading level in NC terms remaining constant for the whole of year 1, and shooting up 3 sublevels in year 2. Well it's complete tosh - in reality, as the parent who hears her at home every day and provides the books that she read throughout years 1 and 2, I know that she made the greatest progress during year 1.

So I would say that none of the school measures "matter" that much - a lot at some schools are probably wrong. However, if your child is put in the wrong ability group then I would be concerned, depending on what being placed in different groups means in terms of the learning tasks provided.

Sorry if this is clear as mud.
Belinda
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Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:57 pm

Re: Tracking Of Levels

Post by Belinda »

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Last edited by Belinda on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
scarlett
Posts: 3664
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:22 am

Re: Tracking Of Levels

Post by scarlett »

Thanks everyone.Yes, I think I will relax a bit more now.....( do you believe me ?!) and just carry on with my work I'm doing with them at home.DS2 didn't have the greatest start teaching wise in yr1/2 so that would surely have had an impact and seems pretty silly to base his future achievements on that time.Just hoping he will make strides now ! but what will be will be and I have to accept that too. I think it's the secondary school business which makes me a bit twitchy...worried where he might end up and now DS1 has got his grammar place DS2 is adamant he wants to go there as well which of course is piling on the pressure ! If only we had a crystal ball and could see that most things work out ok in the end ! :)
mystery
Posts: 8927
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:56 pm

Re: Tracking Of Levels

Post by mystery »

Every cloud has a silver lining. Although it's scary that your son is so determined to get a grammar place that you may feel he may be very disappointed if he doesn't (which really does not sound likely from everything you have said so far Scarlett), it's great he is desperate to gain a place as it will presumably make him that much more motivated to do some extra things to help him achieve that aim .... or am I applying wishful thinking to a sensible and intelligent child who will quite rightly not see the point in doing more than the very minimum?
scarlett
Posts: 3664
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:22 am

Re: Tracking Of Levels

Post by scarlett »

He does work really hard and spends ages on the internet looking up things which interest him such as tsunamis and then writes out the information and I think wow..why am I worrying ? and since he's been in a class with the older children he seems more articulate and mature compared with the year 4 boys who are in the younger class so I think he does have the right attitude . I'm just worried the gaps from earlier on in his school life may still be significant and he won't make the school...and I feel sad for him especially as he is determined to get there.however we can all only do so much and I will have to cross that bridge when we reach it and find positives in wherever he ends up.( sorry if my spelling is dodgy today..worked a night shift last night..no sleep yet ! )
mystery
Posts: 8927
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:56 pm

Re: Tracking Of Levels

Post by mystery »

Oh the school is just covering themselves, hedging their bets etc etc. Let's take the most pessimistic view. Head says he is on 3a/4c now (not sure which elements of which subject, but never mind let's take this as an example).

So let's say he is 3a (to do the most pessimistic projection) with part of year 4 still left to go (and some research shows that significant progress is generally made by children during the summer-term). At average progress (and he should make faster progress than this as things you say about him indicate he is not an average child) he would be a 4a by the same time as this in Year 6.

This is not a million miles away from a 5c / 5b so he will surely get there if he is at least as good as the head's most pessimistic current assessment, and work at home and school enables him to progress faster than average (which should be the case).

Don't worry - as you are always telling me!!
push-pull-mum
Posts: 737
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:52 pm

Re: Tracking Of Levels

Post by push-pull-mum »

So impressed with this wonderful laid back attitude here on the forum this morning. Definitely agree with Mystery that schools use targets to cover their backs. DCren's school inevitably have a lot more level 5s in Y6 than they had level 3s in Y2 so obviously a fair few children 'overacheive' on their targets in Key Stage 2.

How did our parents cope without all these levels to worry about? :D
mystery
Posts: 8927
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:56 pm

Re: Tracking Of Levels

Post by mystery »

I went to school in the dark ages, but I'm pretty sure that some of my teachers would have been able to take a longer view and know in junior school whether the children they were teaching were likely to be ones getting good O and A level grades or not. I guess at the end of the day the worries for parents were the same whether or not NC levels were attached - if you had got the impression that the teacher thought your child was average or below and was treating them accordingly, you would have been worried if you thought your child was not average or below.

The teachers would not have been doing all this measuring of minutiae two or three times a year on a piece of work where the child does not even know they are being assessed. e.g they have checklists of gazillions of points when assessing a piece of writing to decide whether it is a 2 or a 3 - but it could just be that on that occasion your child wrote a piece of rubbish, or that over many pieces of work you would see all the points on the checklist, but not in one piece alone. Then some teachers put children into "ability" groups according to the results of this kind of assessment - the results have nothing to do with ability.
scarlett
Posts: 3664
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:22 am

Re: Tracking Of Levels

Post by scarlett »

push-pull-mum wrote: How did our parents cope without all these levels to worry about? :D

They just worried if we could tie our clumpy shoe laces or perhaps how many summer dresses could be fashioned from a length of material. :) Oh, they were the days.
push-pull-mum
Posts: 737
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:52 pm

Re: Tracking Of Levels

Post by push-pull-mum »

mystery wrote:Then some teachers put children into "ability" groups according to the results of this kind of assessment - the results have nothing to do with ability.
Hmm ... very mixed feelings about ability groups. Great to extend the able and boost the ones that need a bit extra but what about helping the 'average' become the 'able' - only parents ever seem to attempt that - and then the school takes the credit. Ability grouping is a bit of a hot topic at the DCren's school because they have abolished 'ability tables.' I just used to check that kids were sitting with x or y and I knew they were in roughly the right area - now parents are constantly having to compare spellings and maths books in order to keep track. I'm shameless - I just ask. :)
scarlett wrote:
push-pull-mum wrote: How did our parents cope without all these levels to worry about? :D
They just worried if we could tie our clumpy shoe laces or perhaps how many summer dresses could be fashioned from a length of material. :) Oh, they were the days.
Oh no! I remember those dresses! My mum used to buy enough fabric for 2 and then cobble together a 3rd from leftovers. I was the 3rd daughter so my dress would have its stripes running all the wrong way. :oops:
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