Guided reading and ability groups in Y3 and Y4

[Cranleigh]

Hi

In our school children in Y3 are not heard read individually as such. Each ability group will be working to a different target.

The group below will have an easier text and will be aiming for a 3b or 3a and so on and so forth.

Where you are placed initially in Y3 will depend on KS1 result & groups don't tend to change in the course of the year. Perhaps one movement in class of 30. None last year. Children will be challenged and stretched but the group below the top for example will be aiming for different criteria - their book and goals will be different.

A similar system operates in Y4 I believe. Children will be heard read but will tend to read a few pages of the guided reading book to the teacher (within their own group).

Is this how reading generally works in other schools in KS2?

[mystery]

I think it's pretty much the same, except I don't know if it is that clear what they are aiming for. My DD has just finished year 3 with a 3a for reading, and I think she's in the top group (not really sure as it's a year 3/4 class and it's very hard to tell what the groups mean) so I don't know if she was aiming for a low 4 and missed it or if this is what they were aiming for.

Also, I don't know how often they read in the group ....... I think it's supposed to be once a week but her reading record would indicate that it doesn't always happen so it's maybe more like once a fortnight or less? I'm not entirely sure. Whatever it is, it's clearly not very interesting as she doesn't come home and tell me what the book is about, what it's called etc etc. When she's interested in something I do hear at home, and she might like to choose something else by the same author. So it's clearly not fuelling her love of reading in any way.

She also takes in a book each day that she has chosen to read herself. The teacher hears her read this from time to time - the reading record would indicate that this is relatively infrequent - once every few weeks. Also they are allowed to read from time to time during the day so I will sometimes see that she has read a few pages independently at school of the book that she takes in with her.

It's an improvement on lower down the school - my daughter in year 1 is heard once in a blue moon, and guided reading takes place far less than once a week.

The school ofsted report refers to daily guided reading taking place in the school and this being something that the pupils had commented on at the time of the report as being a good thing ........ I don't know what that means - maybe a misprint!

In year 3 they read a class novel to them too --- it quite often seems to be a David Walliams book ........ I'm not quite sure how I feel about that. It's the kind of stuff that very much appeals to my DD but, being an old fashioned kind of person, I would rather that they were read a modern or older classic. Also, it would seem a good thing to me if the children followed in their own copy of the book. I know schools probably can't afford class sets but I don't think many parents would object if they said we are reading such and such this term, please can you beg, borrow or steal a copy.

[suzanne]

My experience is the same - my child just finished Year 3 with a 3a for reading.

They do seem to do guided reading quite a few times each week in particular groups. I understand that about 5 or 6 children of a similar level will read the same book taking it in turns and helping each other. The class assistant also helps with guided reading.

I must admit that after my child came off the reading scheme half way through year 2 I did not hear her read much at all for a year. I have now put that right and we are trying to read a chapter of Paddington or similar book each night (but not always managing this).

It is helping her and she is sounding out the words she doesn't know. Also it helps with ideas for creative writing. Its the main thing I feel that I can help her with and its helping to build her vocabulary.

I don't agree with some of the books which are available to bring home such as Jacqueline Wilson's Worry Website and similar. These books seem to be full of relationship issues etc and not varied vocabulary, but for some reason the girls seem to be drawn towards them....... I would much rather more traditional books were brought home although I can get them for her form the library.

[Cranleigh]

Thanks so much for replies. That's actually very comforting in a way.

I agree about the traditional books, I've love it if Penelope Farmer, Charlotte Sometimes, or When Marnie Was There or an easier Penelope Lively (Whispering Knights, Thomas Kempe etc) was read aloud to the children. I imagine most would think this was beyond most Y3 or Y4 children, I would disagree.

I'd love it if the teacher stopped after a chapter and talked about some of the most interesting words, themes etc and it would be great if teachers had the freedom to pick a book that they were particularly passionate about themselves.

Thing is we have all the Rainbow Magic, David Walliams, Jacqueline Wilson etc at home. Most children are unlikely to ever encounter the books flagged in my first paragraph, sad as that seems to very old fashioned me.

[yoyo123]

I'd love it if the teacher stopped after a chapter and talked about some of the most interesting words, themes etc and it would be great if teachers had the freedom to pick a book that they were particularly passionate about themselves.

Lots do!

I am always asking what they think will happen next, what they think a word means, how a character feels about an event etc..Most other teachers that I know do too

[suzanne]

One of my daughters targets when reading books is to make a note of interesting story ideas which she can then use for creative writing.

I must encourage her to do this over the summer when she / we are reading at home. I have just found a little note book for her.

We could also make a note of any interesting words she doesn't know to to help build up her vocabulary. For example, last night in the "Too Much Off the Top" Paddington barber story (v funny!!) the words deluge, mournful, tonic, Spode, earthenware, toupee and commotion came up.

It's interesting how phrases can be incorporated from books into their writing. For example in the Paddington books he is often anxious about something or there will be speech marks "....." exclaimed Paddington hotly. Hearing these words regularly she can incorporate someone being anxious or saying something hotly into her work.

[mystery]

I think that there are probably so few children who really read for pleasure these days that when they choose a book to read to the class they are making a selection that will have almost universal appeal and that anyone in the class might pick up and read for themselves. Whereas at my old school the class novel was most definitely a stretch for the majority of the class e.g. Watership Down, Jane Eyre etc. We went home and read sections of it ourselves, but there were few in the class who would have read it entirely for pleasure.

My six year old loves reading. My eight year old is getting more likely to choose it as a form of relaxation but rarely reads for more than 30 mins at a stretch. It's interesting the looks that my six year old gets when she's out and about reading. If we are watching a sports event that my older one is in , for example, she'll get her book out and read. I would have done this, and my friends would have done too. However judging by the looks it gets now it's strange behaviour round here anyhow.

[wonderwoman]

I agree about the traditional books, I've love it if Penelope Farmer, Charlotte Sometimes, or When Marnie Was There or an easier Penelope Lively (Whispering Knights, Thomas Kempe etc) was read aloud to the children. I imagine most would think this was beyond most Y3 or Y4 children, I would disagree.

I'd love it if the teacher stopped after a chapter and talked about some of the most interesting words, themes etc and it would be great if teachers had the freedom to pick a book that they were particularly passionate about themselves.

This is exactly what should happen in guided reading. I have a wide selection of good quality fiction and non-fiction for guided reading, I choose them all myself. Usually about 6 children of similar reading ability read the same book - but at their own pace, within reason. The children might be asked to read to a certain place by the next lesson and I would ask them to read a part aloud. The section of the book is discussed in some detail, which might be followed up with written comprehension questions. We also collect words and phrases to use in writing from our reading.

I have never heard of just aiming a group for 3b and I think I would find that really difficult. It is quite possible for 'weaker readers' to cover a lot of level 4 and beyond discussion work and work on their decoding skills through the use of carefully selected books / intervention stategies. Also, I find that there are several 'good' readers at KS1, who have poor comprehension skills (especially those that have competitively rushed through a reading scheme). It's a bit like me reading a legal document - I can read all the words accurately, but I probably wouldn't have the faintest idea what it meant!

[mystery]

Does your school pay for new guided reading books quite often then if you choose them yourself and you need several copies of each book?

[wonderwoman]

Quite often. I have bought 6 new sets of books this year, but last year I only bought one new set. Some I use year after year. Some I don't enjoy and only use once then put in the school library. Some books I love - but if the children regularly don't enjoy them, I might also add them to the library.