Year 4 SATs... so far ... Why ?

[Amber]

Each one of us has a different background, a different experience, a different environment. Your approach works for your kids, my approach works for mine. But you know what, the fact that you spend a lot of time here tells me, in essence, we are not very different after all

And you know what, MUM, you are so wrong. You don't know me at all. I spend time on here in the hope that maybe sometimes I will make someone think, and challenge their own views, just as debating with others makes me challenge my own. I write a lot in my studies so I am online a lot, and some of the brilliant and kind PMs I get via this forum have led me to the view that there are others who enjoy debate of this kind too. I have made 3 real, walking, talking, real life friends through this forum too. They all share my views to some extent, and don't share them to some extent. It really doesn't matter.

You have mounted a lengthy and very detailed defence of your parenting. I am glad you are happy with it and it works for you. But please don't presume to know me, or what makes me tick. I am fundamentally opposed to selective education, but working from the inside out is often the best way to try and change things.

Mystery, I know you don't understand me. Tbh I don't really understand you either, but does it matter? The table my child sat on at primary school never came onto my radar, really. Nor the reading book the school issued- generally I ignored it. I get a little tired of having to defend myself against your accusations of 'but Amber, it wouldn't work in Kent, what is wrong with x, y and z?'. I like debate, and the chance to challenge views and change minds, but cannot at all be bothered with point scoring, competitive parenting or trying to catch people out or trip them up with their own views.

[JRM]

Amber, I would have to read up on your posts!

A great use of your time, MUM.

But in case you have other things to do with your time, a précis: teacher and parent, do not like children to waste time on school work when they are at primary age. Set them free, don't stretch, don't challenge, let them set their own challenges through their play, let them self-direct and have lots of fun. Set yourself free from worrying whether they are level this or that, top table or bottom, working 'to their potential' or not. Let them be happy and learn about the big, big world outside the school gates if they have extra creative energy after a day cooped up in there. Show them that Maths and English are but a tiny fraction of what is worth learning in this world. Get them to level 4 in Year 6 - any higher is unnecessary* . As long as they can access the secondary curriculum when they get there, job done imho.

Plays out well on a forum like this.

I am a creative irritant, I think. I help others feel secure in their opposite opinions

*unless you live in Bucks and they don't make the 11 plus cut the first time, in which case level 5s will buy you a ticket into the re-sits at 12.

Amber,

I read some of your posts.

Why would someone, who is so against “stretching” and challenging children, spend so much time in a forum like this ( full of parents who are more likely than not to be the "Challenge" & "Stretching" loving type ) and posted 2517 posts and counting?! To be "a creative irritant, helping others feel secure in their opposite opinions"? Or you came here because of your own kids sitting for the 11+ ?

"Set them free, don't stretch, don't challenge, let them set their own challenges through their play, let them self-direct and have lots of fun."

Why must it be assumed that just because I chose to focus a bit more on my child's education and progress at school that my child is deprived of a normal enjoyable and playful childhood?! Yes, I encourage and inspire him to try his very best in his studies. Yes, I set him a time table for his homework, studies and readings. Yes, I consistently tutor him ahead of what he is about to cover in school. Yes, his Sats were level 4 at the end of year 3 and yes he is and always been in all the top groups in all subject since Year 1. But my child also chose to do karate twice a week, join the Chess club, play violin, play in the orchestra, play piano, swimming and computer club. He was also, in previous academic years, by his own choice, joined the construction club, gardening club, choir club, science club, language club, Judo , athletics, and played football. He watches a lot of TV at weekends, love scoobydoo and pokemons series...he plays remote controlled helicopters, fly kite, go camping, cliff climbing, cycling , shoot crossbows, camp at the back garden, go fishing, plant fruit trees at the allotment and stuffed himself sick with plums and berries from the allotment, ran down a hill and went through a thorn bush and emerged on the other side dripping with blood from cuts on all over his face, head and body... ride his BMX, plays Nintendo Wii, Play his 3Ds and a lot of other activities that he really enjoys... He is 8 years old. Did I mention we went cliff climbing in summer?!

I don't push him, I inspire him, stimulate his curiosities, he ask endless questions; a lot or science questions (his favorite subject) and how Google software works and how math is useful for software... and so on. Today, on a long walk and after a long silence, he suddenly said "daddy, I can't get over this thing about the universe , it doesn't really have an end is it, but how can something be infinite / endless?"

He ask me, "where are the Key Stage 3 books I asked you to buy for me? " "I really like Chemistry, can you buy me those GCSE chemistry books for me? "


"Get them to level 4 in Year 6 - any higher is unnecessary* . As long as they can access the secondary curriculum when they get there, job done imho.

*unless you live in Bucks and they don't make the 11 plus cut the first time, in which case level 5s will buy you a ticket into the re-sits at 12."

I respect your opinion, but in my area, the comprehensive secondary schools are **** - period. So I should not bother helping my child at least to achieve level 5, so that I could give him a chance to gain a place in a Grammar School? If you are happy with level 4 at year 6, why bother with 11 plus forum yourself?

I have a much more important reason other than Grammar School entrance too; If I decided not to tutor my child and to let him be in the lowest group from year 1, he wouldn't be full of confidence and full of enthusiasm in his studies now - some of his classmates, the girls especially, are bitchy and competitive. There are "top girls" in his class that are constantly shooting down boys who are "slow", but they couldn't pick on him because he trashes them all in all subjects ! One girl went home complaining that my child finished a math test way faster than her, and the following week she came to school with sets of advanced Letts Math books and showing them off in her class, "I am doing these" ! Imagine how damaging it would have been if my son was in the low or lowest group? I am not going to argue about whether its right or wrong, I just don't want my child to be belittled , bullied or joked upon, I went through that as a child. I will never ever let anyone bully my child like I was bullied for being thick in Math etc. He is a very soft and gentle boy and I could see he could easily be a target of bullies - but with a lot of planning on my side, he can kick the sh** of any bully with his Karate and no one can tell him he is stupid or slow. He is confident, can take care of himself and happy.

Each one of us has a different background, a different experience, a different environment. Your approach works for your kids, my approach works for mine. But you know what, the fact that you spend a lot of time here tells me, in essence, we are not very different after all

I think that is a pretty good advert for Amber's approach. It exhausted me reading it and made me want my child never to go near anything resembling a textbook again!

But in reality we do look things up that would be deemed 'very academic' if that is what my child is interested in. The difference is that we don't plan ahead for it to be the next level at school or to make sure we cover any curriculum. So we might be looking at level 1001 in something they are interested in - but not have covered level 5 in 'English'.

If that sounds too harsh I apologise. I have a lot of respect for parents that teach their children, and know that in areas of failing schools this can be necessary. I have actually bought a KS2 book recently to see what my DD should be learning after Ofsted particularly criticised the teacher she had last year and standards. I will read it and fill any gaps I need to, so I'm not relaxed enough to just let her play outside all day.

[Amber]

I think that is a pretty good advert for Amber's approach. It exhausted me reading it and made me want my child never to go near anything resembling a textbook again!

[chumba]

Amber, I don't know you either, but I am very glad to read your postings. I can't say I agree entirely with everything you say, but you have definitely helped me to take the pressure off my kids with regard to formal learning and teaching at home. I am sure they will be very grateful too (all 3 of them), as we just try to make more time to do things together and talk to each other. My 3rd DD is due to start school next September and I have felt confident enough to just read with her and stop trying to teach her sounds and names of letters etc. . We talk about the stories and I answer her questions, nothing else and it is lovely. I still do work with my 2 older children, but I am not worried about stretching them, just reinforcing what they have been doing at school.

Thank you!

[Amber]

Amber, I don't know you either, but I am very glad to read your postings. I can't say I agree entirely with everything you say, but you have definitely helped me to take the pressure off my kids with regard to formal learning and teaching at home. I am sure they will be very grateful too (all 3 of them), as we just try to make more time to do things together and talk to each other. My 3rd DD is due to start school next September and I have felt confident enough to just read with her and stop trying to teach her sounds and names of letters etc. . We talk about the stories and I answer her questions, nothing else and it is lovely. I still do work with my 2 older children, but I am not worried about stretching them, just reinforcing what they have been doing at school.

Thank you!

That is very kind, thank you.

If nothing else, I am glad you have had fun reading with your little girl and stayed away from the cursed phonics! My cousin's daughter was actually not allowed a 'reading book' at school until she had mastered the first stage of Letters and Sounds. This was supposed to instil confidence in the child that she could read all the words in the book. Which she could. She just chose not to bother trying to read anything more interesting and challenging, and still, 5 years later, never chooses to read for pleasure. Maybe coincidence, maybe not.

(Tip - if you want to give your child a head start in reading, and keep the fun, go for some of the fabulous rhyming picture books available for tinies and still great for older kids to relax with. I am sure you know them already - Julia Donaldson, Linley Dodd (the first book one of mine read was the fabulous 'Zachary Quack'), Quentin Blake, even A A Milne. etc. Little ones learn to predict the words, and rhyme is oh so important in early reading. Plus you can have masses of fun with rhythm and rhyme. And pictures too - some great illustrations and they help tell the story - just talking about what one character might be thinking, that kind of thing, can be such fun. I am working with a little struggling reader ATM and not sure who is enjoying it more - child or me. )

[MyUniMoney]

I think that is a pretty good advert for Amber's approach. It exhausted me reading it and made me want my child never to go near anything resembling a textbook again!.

Ahh... Im feeling better knowing that my child will have one less competition for that Grammar School and Oxbridge place ... and that CEO post in the city

But then again, I must have by now totally damaged my child with my approach... in that case he is doomed due to my overly OTT academic parenting, he will be suffering a post traumatic childhood experience for the rest of his life.

And you know what, MUM, you are so wrong. You don't know me at all. I spend time on here in the hope that maybe sometimes I will make someone think, and challenge their own views, just as debating with others makes me challenge my own. I write a lot in my studies so I am online a lot, and some of the brilliant and kind PMs I get via this forum have led me to the view that there are others who enjoy debate of this kind too. I have made 3 real, walking, talking, real life friends through this forum too.

NB: I have edited out part of this post to avoid further unpleasant comments ...

[mystery]

If nothing else, I am glad you have had fun reading with your little girl and stayed away from the cursed phonics! My cousin's daughter was actually not allowed a 'reading book' at school until she had mastered the first stage of Letters and Sounds. This was supposed to instil confidence in the child that she could read all the words in the book. Which she could. She just chose not to bother trying to read anything more interesting and challenging, and still, 5 years later, never chooses to read for pleasure. Maybe coincidence, maybe not.

Well that sounds like a bad teacher ....... but better than our reception experience where most children never got a reading book and were heard to read maybe 3 times in the whole year if they were lucky. That then developed into being forced to read the dire school reading scheme in KS1 unless you somehow managed to escape its clutches which was not easy.

It is a great shame if reading for pleasure is quenched early on with some poor teaching and fixed ideas. But it's this kind of thing which can make some parents feel that they can't entirely forget what is / isn't going on at school. The OP in this post probably has nothing to worry about as it sounds as though the top maths group has level 5 at the start of year 4 which is streets beyond national norms. But a parent of a child who was seemingly struggling might justifiably have some reason not just to ignore, ignore, ignore and assume it might all come right in the end.

[Amber]

7 edits on one post is an impressive number, MUM, but I am afraid I still don't really understand what you are saying. I have the feeling it is a dig at me, though, so perhaps it is just as well.

[wonderwoman]

Oh wow, every child made progress apart from 1 since July ........ is that as measured by NC points, or some way of measuring finer steps in progress Wonderwoman. Now you are worrying me as I was serious about the maths, right across the board.

How do you achieve that though Wonderwoman? A lot of teachers say they spend at least the first half of this term making up for the "summer learning loss"? (Our class is I hope rare in providing an additional couple of months in which to incur additional summer learning loss!)

A mixture of above - NC points and smaller steps - but only one will be measured by that. Our school is very target focused and I have last year's APP, from a talented teacher, so I look at the next steps required for progress at a group and individual level and plan work accordingly. I only group children according to focus and they move a number of times during the year. My teaching assistant is also involved in the planning and delivery of focused teaching and in the recording of progress. It does work. We have a normal / slightly below average intake. A quarter of my current class were below average at the end of KS1, all are now average or above and I expect them to leave primary with between two thirds and three quarters achieving level 5s across the board. That doesn't mean that all of those pupils will be solid level 5s of course. But most importantly I hope my pupils enjoy being in my class - my aim is to have fun whilst learning.

[mystery]

Seven is a magic number - it makes the post more impressive!