SATS,do they matter to your child?
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Bexley Mum 2
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:55 pm
- Location: Bexley
Sharone - I am a parent-governor! But it would take a stronger person than me to change the system. The problem is that our primary has gone from only just scraping a "satisfactory" from the Ofsted before last to getting a "good", bordering on "outstanding" a year ago. Parents look at league tables and we've moved from the bottom third to the top third in the borough and I think we were in some list of the 100 most improved schools in the country a year or so ago.
The trouble is, I'm not sure what the answer is. You're right in that SATS are important for children starting at non-selective secondary schools. The majority of children coming into our primary school are below expected standard and, in terms of value added, our school does a lot for them. It's right that the focus should be on bringing as many children as possible up to level 4 in core subjects. Unfortunately, given the very limited resources of most state primaries, this means that those children who are already there don't seem to me to get much time or attention. My son's apparently gifted and talented in all 3 core subjects, but this doesn't seem to translate into anything concrete for him. Proud mum's school sounds like a good one though with provision for more able children.
The trouble is, I'm not sure what the answer is. You're right in that SATS are important for children starting at non-selective secondary schools. The majority of children coming into our primary school are below expected standard and, in terms of value added, our school does a lot for them. It's right that the focus should be on bringing as many children as possible up to level 4 in core subjects. Unfortunately, given the very limited resources of most state primaries, this means that those children who are already there don't seem to me to get much time or attention. My son's apparently gifted and talented in all 3 core subjects, but this doesn't seem to translate into anything concrete for him. Proud mum's school sounds like a good one though with provision for more able children.
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Kendrick mum
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:41 pm
- Location: Berkshire
Have discovered that extra help for sats at my dd's school is targeted at 30 children of average ability. Therefore no extra for high acheivers or those at the bottom end of the class.
If my child was a poor performer , needed help and didn't get it I would not be a happy parent!
What happened to trying to meet every childs educational need. Good sats results by hook or by crook are the order of the day. Have to say though they still provide a focus and much more work done this year than previous three. Can't complain too much as I feel this year my dd has been stretched and challenged as of course you get the best teachers in sats year!
KM
If my child was a poor performer , needed help and didn't get it I would not be a happy parent!
What happened to trying to meet every childs educational need. Good sats results by hook or by crook are the order of the day. Have to say though they still provide a focus and much more work done this year than previous three. Can't complain too much as I feel this year my dd has been stretched and challenged as of course you get the best teachers in sats year!
KM
Hi again Bexley Mum
Good for you, and I am too, but as I'm one at an infant school and the children leave after KS1, our school doesn't have quite the same problems as those of our children with having to sit the 11+ and KS2 SATs. It seems to me that you feel that although the school for which you are a governor is doing well in terms of value added and SATs passes, they are not meeting the needs of all of the children. Surely this is something that you can at least discuss at governors' meetings, and doesn't necessarily mean that you have to fight the system. I don't know what the answer is, but we can only try our best with the resources that we have been given.
Good for you, and I am too, but as I'm one at an infant school and the children leave after KS1, our school doesn't have quite the same problems as those of our children with having to sit the 11+ and KS2 SATs. It seems to me that you feel that although the school for which you are a governor is doing well in terms of value added and SATs passes, they are not meeting the needs of all of the children. Surely this is something that you can at least discuss at governors' meetings, and doesn't necessarily mean that you have to fight the system. I don't know what the answer is, but we can only try our best with the resources that we have been given.
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Bexley Mum 2
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:55 pm
- Location: Bexley
Sharone - Head teachers are usually very clear that governors decide the school's policies (a rubber-stamping activity) and THEY decide how the school is managed. Last year I challenged something that the previous head did which I believed would have a detrimental impact on many children and was reminded of this fact very sharply! I was also accused of confusing my role as a governor with my role as a parent - ie acting out of self-interest (or rather my own children's interest). In actual fact I didn't think what was being implemented would affect my own children at all but I was genuinely concerned for other children. I think if, as a parent-governor with two very able boys at the school, I started pushing for extra resources for them, people would see this as self-seeking. What I try to do is raise issues like this with their class teachers rather than wearing my governor's hat. But then my Y6 son's teacher hates SATS too - she's planning all sorts of fun activities for next term when they're over!
I hope you'll become a KS2 governor too - good ones are few and far between (in my neck of the woods anyway!)
I hope you'll become a KS2 governor too - good ones are few and far between (in my neck of the woods anyway!)
Dear Bexley Mum
Gosh, how terrible for you. When I've been to some governors conferences I have encountered the odd chair or head teacher who suggested that parent governors were a pain, especially mothers, and that on their board they welcomed Fathers as they could be more objective (which I found extremely annoying and a little derogatory)!. As far as I'm aware, every member on the board has an equal status, and at our induction training we were told that we should act as a critical friend to the Head teacher, and not act as a rubber stamp. I guess with all these things, some boards and chairs act differently, but I'm very happy to be able to say that my experiences as a governor have been positive, and I feel like I've done my bit to help the children to do their best. I hope that overall you feel the same.
Take care
Sharon
Gosh, how terrible for you. When I've been to some governors conferences I have encountered the odd chair or head teacher who suggested that parent governors were a pain, especially mothers, and that on their board they welcomed Fathers as they could be more objective (which I found extremely annoying and a little derogatory)!. As far as I'm aware, every member on the board has an equal status, and at our induction training we were told that we should act as a critical friend to the Head teacher, and not act as a rubber stamp. I guess with all these things, some boards and chairs act differently, but I'm very happy to be able to say that my experiences as a governor have been positive, and I feel like I've done my bit to help the children to do their best. I hope that overall you feel the same.
Take care
Sharon
Just thought i would pop along and add a few comments to this thread.
I work in a YR6 class. After Easter we hit the ground running with mock test after mock test in the run up to SATS. The kids in my class love being in the top class. We certainly dont JUST concentrate on SATS, there is the residential trip (this year we flew to Devon on an activities holiday), they have ultimate responsibilities i.e. running the annual school fete, school council etc. all things to set them up for the big wide world out there. In answer to a comment made previously about SATS and school league tables, is it fair to blame the schools? We were recently ofsted'd and came out with a satisfactory. This was all down to the fact that our results of last year were not great. Out of a class of 20, 9 were on behavioural IEP's and 3 were statemented. Ofsted/Government do not publish this in the league tables. It takes so long to cut through the red tape for statementing a childs special needs that the school doesnt get the extra financial support it needs to put provisions into place until IMO time is running out for us to be able to make any progress in their learning. The class teacher and i do everything that is possible to ensure each and every child in our class is happy, secure and motivated. I hate SATS and feel that they put extra pressure on children who are too young. Unfortunately the government demands this so it has to be done. I think i heard somewhere that only in this country are children tested so vigorously. I urge you not to blame the schools, I understand that your children are the most precious things in the world to you and you should be able to rant about a country that doesnt see them as individuals, but statistics, but aim it at the right people, only the government can change this.
I work in a YR6 class. After Easter we hit the ground running with mock test after mock test in the run up to SATS. The kids in my class love being in the top class. We certainly dont JUST concentrate on SATS, there is the residential trip (this year we flew to Devon on an activities holiday), they have ultimate responsibilities i.e. running the annual school fete, school council etc. all things to set them up for the big wide world out there. In answer to a comment made previously about SATS and school league tables, is it fair to blame the schools? We were recently ofsted'd and came out with a satisfactory. This was all down to the fact that our results of last year were not great. Out of a class of 20, 9 were on behavioural IEP's and 3 were statemented. Ofsted/Government do not publish this in the league tables. It takes so long to cut through the red tape for statementing a childs special needs that the school doesnt get the extra financial support it needs to put provisions into place until IMO time is running out for us to be able to make any progress in their learning. The class teacher and i do everything that is possible to ensure each and every child in our class is happy, secure and motivated. I hate SATS and feel that they put extra pressure on children who are too young. Unfortunately the government demands this so it has to be done. I think i heard somewhere that only in this country are children tested so vigorously. I urge you not to blame the schools, I understand that your children are the most precious things in the world to you and you should be able to rant about a country that doesnt see them as individuals, but statistics, but aim it at the right people, only the government can change this.
Dear BuffyBabe
I totally understand the pressure that schools are under, and don't at all blame the schools. My initial comments were mostly pro-SATs, as they have giving my son a huge boost after not passing the 11+.
Although much of the public take SATs results at face value when judging the performance of a school, those of us who have anything to do with schools knows that these are often an unfair assesment as things like the number of SEN children or children with english as a second language aren't taken into consideration. For example, this year, as a governor, we have been told that our KS1 results are predicted to be worse than last year, mostly because of an influx of 6 children this year into our year 2 class (now up to 30) who don't speak english, 2 of which have never been to school before. We also have statemented children this year which we didn't have our last KS1 cohort. So, on face value parents might think that our performance has dropped, when actually all of the children may have performed better than if they were being taught elsewhere. As a parent, and a governor, I think that the teachers at my children's schools are doing a fantastic job under tremendous and often difficult teaching environments, and its a shame that league tables and SATs often cloud others opinions on how well a school is doing.
I totally understand the pressure that schools are under, and don't at all blame the schools. My initial comments were mostly pro-SATs, as they have giving my son a huge boost after not passing the 11+.
Although much of the public take SATs results at face value when judging the performance of a school, those of us who have anything to do with schools knows that these are often an unfair assesment as things like the number of SEN children or children with english as a second language aren't taken into consideration. For example, this year, as a governor, we have been told that our KS1 results are predicted to be worse than last year, mostly because of an influx of 6 children this year into our year 2 class (now up to 30) who don't speak english, 2 of which have never been to school before. We also have statemented children this year which we didn't have our last KS1 cohort. So, on face value parents might think that our performance has dropped, when actually all of the children may have performed better than if they were being taught elsewhere. As a parent, and a governor, I think that the teachers at my children's schools are doing a fantastic job under tremendous and often difficult teaching environments, and its a shame that league tables and SATs often cloud others opinions on how well a school is doing.
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Bexley Mum 2
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:55 pm
- Location: Bexley
It would really help if newspapers realised that the important statistic in league tables is value added - not the percentage of children reaching level 4 in core subjects. So many people misjudge schools and think they are underachieving when, in fact, they may be doing extremely well.
In December, the Times printed a list of the "top 10" schools in each region/borough. In Bexley these were typically the schools in the most affluent areas, some of which manage to get 100% in all core subjects. Our primary school, which has many children joining in reception with poor standards and has a high number of SEN children, usually features in the middle/below middle list for the whole borough. But we actually had a value added mark which was not far off the No.1 school.
If newspapers printed schools for each area in order of value added, we might all get a surprise!
In December, the Times printed a list of the "top 10" schools in each region/borough. In Bexley these were typically the schools in the most affluent areas, some of which manage to get 100% in all core subjects. Our primary school, which has many children joining in reception with poor standards and has a high number of SEN children, usually features in the middle/below middle list for the whole borough. But we actually had a value added mark which was not far off the No.1 school.
If newspapers printed schools for each area in order of value added, we might all get a surprise!
In our school though the KS1 teacher was over generous with the marks of the children we are getting through now and last year and so the value added just doesn't add up. hopefully be back on track for next year but makes for another uncomfortable year, though we are lucky this year, we only have 9 year 6 so we dont have to publish scores, takes the pressure off the kids i think.
One of my stamented children last year didnt reach a level 4 but the progress on his value added was phenomenal, i was so proud of him, so maybe you are right.
One of my stamented children last year didnt reach a level 4 but the progress on his value added was phenomenal, i was so proud of him, so maybe you are right.
