KS2 SATs - practice work

Key Stages 1-2 and SATs advice

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MmeOgg
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Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:44 pm

Re: KS2 SATs - practice work

Post by MmeOgg »

I had always thought that KS2 SATs are purely about the school. So of no real benefit to the children.
In which case, working on KS2 SATs at home will artificially boost the school's results, masking any weaknesses in the school's teaching.
Why would parents want to spend time and/or money to protect a school that their child will be leaving shortly?

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick about the benefits to children?
Thanks.
Guest55
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Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:21 pm

Re: KS2 SATs - practice work

Post by Guest55 »

MmmOgg - people DO say this but they are short-sighted imho.

Low KS2 levels which don't reflect a child's ability may well lead to low challenge in Year 7 and will certainly mean low targets for GCSE. Secondary schools are also judged on progress so it's wise to have good levels on entry.
heartmum
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Location: Buckinghamshire

Re: KS2 SATs - practice work

Post by heartmum »

Guest55 wrote:.. Low KS2 levels which don't reflect a child's ability may well lead to low challenge in Year 7 and will certainly mean low targets for GCSE. Secondary schools are also judged on progress so it's wise to have good levels on entry.
Having two older DCs I totally agree with you Guest55 ... and in addition with the 12+ there is additional pressure for L5s across all areas by end Y6.
Heartmum x x x
MmeOgg
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Re: KS2 SATs - practice work

Post by MmeOgg »

OK - I hadn't thought about that - especially as the world of 12+ is something I know nothing about, thanks.
Does the opposite hold true too? That inflated SATs results (due to school booster sessions or extra practice at home) lead to secondary schools having unrealistically high expectations of children?
Guest55
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Re: KS2 SATs - practice work

Post by Guest55 »

Not really as we know that is likely to be true for some and, in maths, we know only some schools will have targeted level 6.

Of course, it does mean their targets are high - we need to get all level 6s to A*. This willl be impossible as the number getting top grade at GCSE will be capped at a % lower than the % getting KS2 level 6!

In addition as people will know I really don't think a KS2 level 6 means much beyond they are a strong level 5 and I could already tell that from their mark in the level 3 to 5 paper.
Tolstoy
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Re: KS2 SATs - practice work

Post by Tolstoy »

Guest55 wrote:MmmOgg - people DO say this but they are short-sighted imho.

Low KS2 levels which don't reflect a child's ability may well lead to low challenge in Year 7 and will certainly mean low targets for GCSE. Secondary schools are also judged on progress so it's wise to have good levels on entry.
I was one of those parents and still am to a certain extent as I do think poor maths teaching in primary schools is un-acceptable, the whole point of SATs testing was to prevent this happening and by filling the gaps at home we are masking the problem so it will never be put right.

However we have fallen foul of the lack of high levels with one of ours. He spent nearly a whole term in bottom set maths despite being in the top 3 of a class of thirty primary DC (they didn't do SATs). He has been moved to middle set but still finds the work too easy.

The flip side is our eldest DC got the level 5s but I would say they were inflated scores as the maths teaching at the primary school was poor. They went to a Grammar and struggled with the level of maths taught there because there were a number of gaps in their knowledge. This led to a knock in confidence which is never a good thing.

Ironic really the DC who received excellent maths teaching penalised now by being given work too easy, the DC with the poor teaching penalised by being given work too difficult :( .
mystery
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Re: KS2 SATs - practice work

Post by mystery »

I personally think that maths is one of those subjects where, until you are a self-proficient whizz at learning from a degree level textbook, the teaching you receive is vital - and what is good for one child isn't necessarily good for another. It's very hard to get it just right for each and every individiual. So I'd never frown at someone who wanted to do extra at home for their child in some way - whether it be stretch for situations where school is easy and dull, or practice, reinforcement and reteaching what has taken place at school for a child who seems to be in a situation where it's too hard at school. Something can click at home in 5 minutes that could take terms of bafflement at school.

The notion that poor SATS results of able children at KS2 will show up poor teaching just doesn't seem to work - after all, whose to know that they were able - especially if their KS1 levels were not stunning either. Or if it does work, it's too late for your child as by the time the poor teaching is identified and rectified your child is part way through secondary school.

People should complain or ask for more specific support at the time - but they don't, teachers are probably too overstretched to respond adequately, and most parents don't have the knowledge to know if what is taking place in school is good, bad or indifferent. Much easier just to trust the school and think that your child is no great shakes at maths.
Tolstoy
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Re: KS2 SATs - practice work

Post by Tolstoy »

The problem is the maths requirement to teach at primary is low, C at GCSE. NonE of the teachers at my elder boys primary liked the subject, I know I also taught there. I myself with maths A'level have at time struggled to adapt to all the changes in method and understand why they are necessary. I strongly agree with you Mystery unlike English, maths especially in the early years is all about good teaching. I am certain we struggle to get maths graduates and hence good teachers because many a potential mathematician has been led to believe they are rubbish at the subject through poor teaching. I myself dipped seriously in the subject for one year due to a poor teacher which almost led to me having to take CSE in it rather than O'level. Fortunately my next teacher was excellent and I was able to make up lost ground.
moved
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Re: KS2 SATs - practice work

Post by moved »

It often saddens me that people are so negative on here about their primary schools. These schools have educated your children for 7 years.

Boosters are run in secondary schools for GCSE and A level and people are pleased. We live in a world of league tables and schools are pushed to the limit. 1/3 of primary pupils are supposed to make exceptional progress from KS1.

I have come across some dreadful maths teaching and knowledge but rarely. Primary teachers are not subject specialists but they put an enormous amount of effort into helping the children achieve. I chose to go back to primary teaching as I felt that my solid understanding of maths would be better placed in a primary environment. As a head, I don't teach whole classes but I do run booster sessions for maths and an 11+ club. Would you prefer that I didnt? Yes, my sessions will help our data but the children in my groups are being taught in a very small group and I am teaching them - isn't that what school is there for?

One of the biggest problems in their education can be the lack of perception of children's knowledge in yr7.
mystery
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:56 pm

Re: KS2 SATs - practice work

Post by mystery »

I personally would be very happy to send my year 6 child to a good booster session in anything that was on offer. Earlier on I was referring to the parent who seemed disappointed that their child was not invited to a level 5 writing booster for 3 hours per week and saying that if the school hadn't got them to a level 5 in writing in 6.5 years of daily lessons, it was quite likely that they could do a better job at home - for lots of different reasons - or that the child was going to get to level 5 anyhow in the day to day lessons.

Sorry I do sound jaded quite often - but that's to do with our personal experience which I am not presuming would be similar at every English primary. I guess, on here you'll find a preponderance of atypical experiences in either direction as, I guess, people don't write in to fora about "the ordinary".

Your school will be fabulous Moved, as are very many. But Kent and Medway do have a bit of a problem with primary schools (a proportion - not all). Secondary education in Kent does seem to remedy the situation and I'm looking forward to it after 6.5 years.

I can tell from things you have said on here about maths that you have a completely different approach to the new national curriculum from our school - it saddens me too that my children are at a school for 7 years that interprets the new national curriculum in such a negative way. I genuinely do not know if this comes from inside or outside the school but it is completely the opposite approach to the one you describe. And the one you describe fits the national curriculum I have read.

One doesn't always have the choice of changing primary school so you can end up feeling pretty negative by the 7th year! My apologies. Everything you describe sounds wonderful in the various schools you did your maths role at.
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