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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:27 pm 
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yoyo123 wrote:
As others said last year's SATs were difficult, especially the Reading. There were cases of children who passed 11+ with high standardised scores coming out as "not secondary ready!"

Gosh!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:03 pm 
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DD in year 8 at a GS. Her spelling has always been awful with no help from primary.
She initially didn't get a grammar school place but had a late offer from the wait list in July.
The main reason she missed points was her spelling let her down with the CEM test and Cloze.
She has improved immensely since being at GS. They actually mark spellings and help her. She is even going to a spelling club at lunchtime.
I would not worry about your DD. Hopefully she will get the help she needs by being in a GS.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:11 am 
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Thank you for all your comments and information. I have spoken to a friend of mine, who is a teacher and who knows my daughter to get some advise. She said that she is very bright and due to her good score in passing the 11 plus shows she has ability. She said the grammar school will not refuse her a place, even if she did not reach the required national level in one particular subject. I have been going over different things with her with regards to the spag tests, and she is starting to be able to identify and understand which words in sentences belong to which groups i.e. conjunctions, causes etc. She still gets a bit muddled with the perfect and past tenses, but is improving. As regards to her spellings, I think it is always going to be pot luck and vary greatly on which words come up on the tests. I did two tests with her today, and she scored 14/20 for one and 19/20 for the other. Last week , it was more like half. On the two tests overall that she has done in the last couple of days, she score 53/70 for one and 59/70 for the other (must have been an easier paper). I have to say this is a vast improvement on the tests from the previous few weeks, which were low 40,s. I think going over things with her, and explaining clearly, so things are a lot fresher in her mind has helped a lot. She is a lot happier in herself, now that she has produced a good couple of tests.

I think steady practice over the next few weeks, will help her and improve her confidence. I do think that a lot of it stems from what type of school your child attends, and how much they help the children. My dd attends a small primary school with about 30-40 in the class, but they are mixed level taught, years 4,5 and 6 all in one classroom. I was quite shocked when I have looked at the ks2 tests, and how much they expect the children to know. Especially when it,s not just basic one words answers that they require, but in the reading tests, some of the depth and answers that they want astounds me. If your child has not been taught how to do creative, descriptive writing and how to answer exam questions like this, then it is almost impossible. (Which my dd school has not really covered).

Well, that is my moan about the sat tests over, I just feel sorry for the children and the pressure that comes with it all , as they are all just so young.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:21 am 
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Hi,
It looks like you have a good plan.
I wanted to add that spellings are best taught in families of words. So, especially with the Latin based words when some vowels are all pronounced as neutral (schwa). I stated doing that with my son after reading Spell It Out, by David Crystal. I told his teacher in year 5 and I am pleased to say the whole school adopted the technique.

Please don't worry about SATs. The school will be worrying about them as this is seen as an indication on how well they taught their students, so expect a lot of mocks from now until May. A lot of secondary schools will set the students based on their school report, 11+ scores, their own tests, such as CATs and SATs. After a while, they'll continue changing the sets. Therefore, SATs is just a variable. My son's grammar school doesn't set children and they all do well. They all have GCSEs targets though and my son was dismayed that his are 8s and 9s. This is in part because he started with level 6 for English and Maths and the school needs to show that they've taught him something. He then said something like if he'd known, he wouldn't have tried so hard! I can totally understand him, but have reassured him that if the school think that he can do it, then it must be because he can and they can help him. So, my message here is that there is no need to push for a high level as the expectations later on may be very high which in turn may make your daughter feel under pressured.

Your daughter should not be pressurised at this stage, she's already been through the 11+ which can be more than enough for most.

Both my boys took it easy after the 11+ as their future was not dependent on SATs. They were quite advanced as the tests they took covered English and Maths, as well as VR, NVR and spatial reasoning. My youngest will go through SATs this year, and we all know that they are tougher, including the secondary schools.

Salsa

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Spell-Out-sing ... 1846685680
http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000383.htm
"The schwa is the vowel sound in many lightly pronounced unaccented syllables in words of more than one syllable. It is sometimes signified by the pronunciation "uh" or symbolized by an upside-down rotated e. A schwa sound can be represented by any vowel."


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:11 pm 
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The points that you have made have made me think about this a bit more in depth. I never even thought about the consequences of pushing her to hard, so she gets a good score. I certainly don't want her to feel under pressure straight away, as soon as she goes to secondary. I think that we should just concentrate on her being able to go into the exams feeling fairly confident and to feel comfortable and relaxed. In the grand scheme of things, a pass is a pass, however many marks you get. She is only eleven, and still has several years to go , and to blossom. Thanks for your advice.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:41 pm 
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You are most welcome. That's why I keep coming back to the forum, to give advice and to also learn from other people's experiences. There are situations, however that we cannot foresee, and we deal with them. Your daughter may react in a very different way to my son and she's going to a different school, but it's good to keep things in mind.

Salsa


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:16 pm 
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I would endorse thinking long and hard about the consequences of pushing her too hard so she gets a good score. A friend of mine has a very bright son who did fantastically well in his SATs. In Y8 she got called into school to discuss the fact that he was 'underachieving in all areas'. Turned out he'd done so we'll in his SATs that they'd set his targets so high that they didn't actually teach his year to that level...!!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:20 pm 
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Sorry 'well' not 'we'll' !


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:47 am 
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I think I might have gone about this all wrong, and might have got in a bit of a muddle. I will just explain a few details of why I seemed to be so concerned. My dd is a bright , happy child, she has always been in the top sets for maths and reading/and probably in the middle sets for english grammar throughout primary. She excels at maths, but like I said in my original post, english is not her strong point, especially the dreaded spelling.

She obviously took her 11 plus, and passed with a good score. She did some lessons to help her from about Easter of year 5, an hour a week, and then I got her to do practise tests in the summer holidays before the tests in September. She was the only child from her school that actually passed the test, all of the others in the class who took it did not. Even when my husband and I were sat at the school whilst waiting for her to finish the tests, the other parents were talking to us and stated that you should not tutor for the tests, as the child will really struggle and not be able to cope if they get in. (I don't know if they were aware about dd having had some lessons or not).

Anyway, she passed, and when I went to the school after I had received her results, I asked her teacher a few questions. I wanted to know if dd would be fine at the grammar and would be ok and cope, I did ask for her score (which they would not tell me), and the answer I got was that yes she would be fine ,but that many children would cope at grammar school. She then said the tests don't really indicate or show anything, and it all depends on if the child had a lucky day when taking them.

A couple of months later, dd had not done her homework ( they are not issued much, maybe one to two pieces a week or to draw a picture). So, she did her homework on the way to school in the car.And I must admit in this instance, her writing did look like a spider had crawled all over her book.

She then mentioned to me a few days later, that her teacher had stood up in front of the class and said in front of all the other children, that her homework was definitely not of a grammar school standard and made her feel about 2 ft tall. Dd said it was horrible. And then a few weeks later, told dd that she expected her to pass her maths sats with a level 6 mastery. I wish the woman would make her mind up, I presume she wants her to get a high score, just so the school looks good.

Now, all the kids are talking about sats etc, and are telling dd that she will have to pass all her sats with really high scores, because if you don't, you should not be in the grammar school. (I think it is more the teachers/parents talking, not the children). I know my daughter has not even thought at all about what scores her friends or other kids will achieve.

So, hence I have been panicking about her not being good enough with her english. To be honest, I just feel a bit confused about it all, and fed up of all the little digs, just because she has gained a place at a good school.

I think I might just have a go at a couple more tests with dd, to see how she gets on and then we will leave it. Looking at what I have just written, I don't think or feel that dd needs to do anymore than that. What will be, will be.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:17 am 
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Stop worrying. Parents get particularly nasty about children who pass, when their child does not - especially if they expected their child to pass! Tell your DD that when people are jealous it comes out in different ways. I would go and have a word with the teacher who called her out in front of the class though - I would say something like, dd said that this happened but I know she must have been exaggerating as of course no self respecting teacher would comment negatively on another child's work in front of the entire class, would they? Explain to the teacher that she may not like the system but it exists and your child entered and passed on the day - yes she may not have passed on another day and other kids might have, but that is not the point at this present time.

The SATs are a separate system and are more important to the school and ergo the staff as it rates how well they have been teaching all year. The pressure on them is enormous and they pass that on to the kids. You have the right to withdraw your child from SATs should you so wish - the school won't like that either as they will be counting on her maths Level 6! Don't threaten this, just know that you have that option. Every year there are one or two kids that "might" have passed hte test that don't and one or two who pass the the test who "might" not - that doesn't mean either is more or less deserving of the place - it's just bad luck or good luck on the day - the difference can be one question. The majority of parents who entered their child will have done some form of preparation for the 11+ whether it was with a private paid for tutor or themselves. Once you get into secodnary you will find kids who fly at Maths but not English or those who are super star linguists and those who are great at Art - very few are brilliant at everything and some will come out with fantastic GCSEs and some will come out with a normal clutch - your daughter will fit in at her own level and as long as she has your support and makes friends, will be fine.


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