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 Post subject: Re: CAF
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:25 pm
Posts: 335
Thanks Etienne.

I am also baffled as to how they know as it was 'never mentioned', during the appeal hearing. And as I've always said, the IAP rarely asked any questions, apart from what happened to me and commenting on how lucky DD was to have her brother. That was basically it.

Possibly someone from the GS read it on here, how else would they have got that info I wander and certainly raises a few more questions. :?

Another thing worrying me is that the school's letter says that my appeal paperwork was sent late, that is not true!! It was sent a week before the deadline, 1st class, recorded delivery, which coincided with half term and so they apparently, didn't look at their letters until 'after half term', which isn't my fault at all because if they had told me beforehand I would have sent it much earlier. Have emails around the time to prove this was the case. :)

What doesn't kill you sure makes you stronger to conquer future obstacles, no matter how tough :)


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 Post subject: Re: CAF
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:48 pm 
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Just phoned my son who confirmed that the CAF/1st school preferences was not discussed at all :?


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 Post subject: Re: CAF
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:41 am
Posts: 5240
Location: Essex
zeinab wrote:
Just phoned my son who confirmed that the CAF/1st school preferences was not discussed at all :?


In Essex, a copy of the original CAF (and details of any subsequent applications) forms part of the 'pack' for the appeal, so the panel is aware of the preferences. But of course, the appellant is also aware of this, as they have copies of all the documents.

Whether any member of the panel would find it pertinent to raise the matter of where the appellant had ranked the school is another question.

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 Post subject: Re: CAF
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7221
Pleased to see that no one tried to put any obstacles in the way of your getting access to the pdf file.
As we speculated further above, it does include the school's response to your complaint, and a copy of their case for prejudice.
By referring to the case for prejudice as an "undated letter to you", the EFA caused some confusion. It would have made more sense if they had referred to the "statement sent to all appellants".

The EFA have already ruled that the clerk's decision letter was non-compliant.
In his letter of 2nd December the EFA Complaints Co-ordinator wrote that, apart from the decision letter, "the process was followed correctly"
- and yet there appear to be two further breaches of the Code (which you could not raise earlier because of the school's unwillingness to provide you with a copy of the clerk's notes):

1)
the clerk wrote:
Noted offer of ...... school which was 1st choice on CAF form
zeinab wrote:
it was 'never mentioned', during the appeal hearing
In that case they had probably asked the LA for details, but - wherever they got the information from - this should have been disclosed in the case papers, and you would then have had an opportunity to explain.
      Quote:
      2.21 Appeal panels must operate according to the principles of natural justice. Those most directly relevant to appeals are .........

      c) written material and evidence must have been seen by all the parties.

2)
the clerk wrote:
Considered education of all pupils in the school as well as other appeal cases [my emphasis]
As I've mentioned previously, this looks like a serious breach of section 3.9 of the Code because the clerk has recorded that they "considered other appeal cases" when deciding that your case did not outweigh the prejudice to the school.
      Quote:
      3.9 In multiple appeals, the panel must not compare the individual cases when deciding whether an appellant’s case outweighs the prejudice to the school.
Section 3.9 does go on to say
      Quote:
      However, where the panel finds there are more cases which outweigh prejudice than the school can admit, it must then compare the cases and uphold those with the strongest case for admission.
      - but there is absolutely no evidence that the panel invoked the second part of section 3.9 and proceeded to rank all those appellants (including your daughter) whom it deemed to be qualified.


Having eventually had sight of the clerk's notes, I don't think there is a case for arguing that academic evidence and extenuating circumstances weren't considered.
In addition to recording the long list of documents provided, the notes state:

      "Panel considered school reports and school letters, plus other documentation provided"
      "Panel reread documentation provided"
      "Considered all documents provided, plus verbal case"

I'm afraid we cannot show that the panel failed to consider the evidence. We may well disagree with their judgement - but that is not grounds for a complaint.


Please let me know if you would like to raise the apparent failure of the EFA to spot the two probable breaches of the Code which I have set out above, and I will send you the link to a DfE complaints form.

Some words of caution:

      a) This is an internal procedure in which someone else from the EFA will review the handling of your complaint.

      b) Even if they were to agree that the Code has been breached, they might claim that the final decision was not affected (so no injustice).

However, as I've said before, this particular complaints procedure seems to be relatively quick, so you have little to lose by going ahead and seeing what happens.

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: CAF
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:25 pm
Posts: 335
Thanks, Etienne.

I remember that another GS school we appealed to mentioned we hadn't put it down first during the hearing, but in that instance we had the chance to explain what happened. Think I mentioned it earlier on this thread.

How about if they hadn't considered the evidence properly, because there were too many appeals to cover, and more importantly they received my paperwork the day of appeal, of no fault of my own.

Isn't it just possible they could have made a hasty decision/ mistake as they are only human after all ? How can it be binding if there is always the question that a mistake could have been made if they were tired or had a long week ? reasons.

Do the EFA look at the school reports/ evidence during their investigation ?

Yes, can you please send me the link, thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: CAF
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7221
zeinab wrote:
How about if they hadn't considered the evidence properly, because there were too many appeals to cover
There's no evidence for this.

Quote:
and more importantly they received my paperwork the day of appeal, of no fault of my own.
I've discounted this because, as I've said, the notes state:
      "Panel considered school reports and school letters, plus other documentation provided"
      "Panel reread documentation provided"
      "Considered all documents provided, plus verbal case"
We can't prove otherwise.

Quote:
Do the EFA look at the school reports/ evidence during their investigation ?
I doubt it. There's no reason why they should. It's not their role to judge the evidence. Their role is to investigate procedure.

Quote:
Yes, can you please send me the link, thank you.
Will do. :)

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 Post subject: Re: CAF
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:25 pm
Posts: 335
Thank you, Etienne.

Just one more thing, this particular Clerk has been manning the appeals for all the grammar schools in the area for many years now so ceases to be independent, or does that not matter ?


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 Post subject: Re: CAF
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:10 am 
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zeinab wrote:
this particular Clerk has been manning the appeals for all the grammar schools in the area for many years now so ceases to be independent, or does that not matter ?
No, there's never been any rule limiting the length of time a clerk may serve.

It's the panel who take all the decisions, and there used to be a recommendation (not a requirement) that panel members should not hear appeals for the same school for an extended period of time (usually no more than three years) - but this was dropped in 2012 and does not appear in the current SAAC (School Admissions Appeals Code).

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 Post subject: Re: CAF
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:25 pm
Posts: 335
Hi Etienne.

Please check your inbox. :)


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 Post subject: Re: CAF
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7221
Hi zeinab

They may be checking with the school where they got the information about preferences from.

I've drafted a reply for you to send.

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Etienne


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