Trafford - examples of questions asked by the panel @ appeal

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Mbrenno84
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:45 pm

Re: Trafford - examples of questions asked by the panel @ ap

Post by Mbrenno84 »

Thanks Etienne - sorry about not sticking to the one thread. When I realised I did it, I went back to remove it but you had already copied it over :)

A successful case is the one where the prejudice to the child outweighs the school's overall prejudice case. So I'm trying to consider their points of prejudice, and have a comeback for them.

Will I have to argue against the merits of the school's prejudice case and try and discredit them, or, is it more about arguing for my child thereby outweighing the school's prejudice case automatically (I hope that I managed to explain that properly).
Etienne
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Trafford - examples of questions asked by the panel @ ap

Post by Etienne »

Mbrenno84 wrote:Thanks Etienne - sorry about not sticking to the one thread. When I realised I did it, I went back to remove it but you had already copied it over :)
No problem. :)
A successful case is the one where the prejudice to the child outweighs the school's overall prejudice case. So I'm trying to consider their points of prejudice, and have a comeback for them.

(a) Will I have to argue against the merits of the school's prejudice case and try and discredit them, or, (b) is it more about arguing for my child thereby outweighing the school's prejudice case automatically (I hope that I managed to explain that properly).


If there are obvious weaknesses in the school case, I would try and do both (a) and (b).
Usually, though, it tends to be just (b)!

Please read the link I provided to C1. I hope it provides clarification.
For example:
    • v. Bear in mind that an appeal panel usually has a lot of experience within it, and in all probability is more than capable of analysing the authority’s case without anyone else’s help. By all means ask a few short, probing questions at stage 1 to try and dent the authority’s case a bit, but it is rare for an authority to lose at stage 1. If they do lose, that is a bonus that will almost certainly happen without any intervention on the part of parents. If you spend too long worrying about stage 1, it will risk distracting from what in most instances really matters. The vast majority of appeals are won or lost at stage 2, the parent’s case, and this is where your focus should be.
Etienne
Mbrenno84
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:45 pm

Re: Trafford - examples of questions asked by the panel @ ap

Post by Mbrenno84 »

In the days of ZOOM appeals, is it ok to take notes into the appeal and refer to them? I know we mentioned presenting your case, and summarising your case, but I mean during the question and answer from the panel to me? Will I look disadvantaged?
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Trafford - examples of questions asked by the panel @ ap

Post by Etienne »

Mbrenno84 wrote:is it ok to take notes into the appeal and refer to them? I know we mentioned presenting your case, and summarising your case, but I mean during the question and answer from the panel to me?
Yes.
Will I look disadvantaged?
Not if you really are just referring to your notes (checking some details, or making sure you haven't overlooked something).
On the other hand, I would try and avoid being seen to be constantly using one's notes as a script to answer questions.

A script is fine for a presentation or summing up, but if an appellant appears to be continually reading out word-for-word pre-prepared answers to questions, it might not make a good impression.
Etienne
springbloom
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Re: Trafford - examples of questions asked by the panel @ ap

Post by springbloom »

Do the school get to ask the parents any questions?
Etienne
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Trafford - examples of questions asked by the panel @ ap

Post by Etienne »

springbloom wrote:Do the school get to ask the parents any questions?
The admission authority normally does. (It may or may not be the school.)

https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/general#a40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Etienne
Mbrenno84
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Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:45 pm

Re: Trafford - examples of questions asked by the panel @ ap

Post by Mbrenno84 »

I’ve been preparing my case for one of the schools that I am appealing. It is a non selective faith school with a certain number of random allocated places for non faith. All other places are faith allocated by oversubscription. I’m struggling with my case as my daughter would have had to be one of the randomly allocated non faith places.

Oversubscription only applies so far because of the random allocation nature. It’s not distance. It’s not catchment.

Is the recommendation to make my case based on my daughters academic ability?
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Trafford - examples of questions asked by the panel @ ap

Post by Etienne »

Mbrenno84 wrote:I’ve been preparing my case for one of the schools that I am appealing. It is a non selective faith school with a certain number of random allocated places for non faith. All other places are faith allocated by oversubscription. I’m struggling with my case as my daughter would have had to be one of the randomly allocated non faith places.

Oversubscription only applies so far because of the random allocation nature. It’s not distance. It’s not catchment.

Is the recommendation to make my case based on my daughters academic ability?
First of all, what are your reasons for seeking a place at this school? What does it offer that the allocated school doesn't?
Etienne
Mbrenno84
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:45 pm

Re: Trafford - examples of questions asked by the panel @ ap

Post by Mbrenno84 »

Etienne wrote:
Mbrenno84 wrote:I’ve been preparing my case for one of the schools that I am appealing. It is a non selective faith school with a certain number of random allocated places for non faith. All other places are faith allocated by oversubscription. I’m struggling with my case as my daughter would have had to be one of the randomly allocated non faith places.

Oversubscription only applies so far because of the random allocation nature. It’s not distance. It’s not catchment.

Is the recommendation to make my case based on my daughters academic ability?
First of all, what are your reasons for seeking a place at this school? What does it offer that the allocated school doesn't?
Ok it's an interesting one. This school is the only school that is (1) non distance, non catchment area based for non-faith children. There are literally a set amount of places for non-faith done by random allocation. If i was going for a faith place i could appeal based on religion, distance and oversubscription. The non-faith element takes all those away bar the oversubscription i guess. (2) it is the one school we actually visited before the pandemic hit as it was always our local authority school of choice, after the grammar schools. if she got a grammar school, that would have taken priority. I would prefer her to go here, rather than to the local authority school she has been allocated on based on school performance. it is a better school based on exam performance, progress 8, and ofsted reporting (3) we are looking to move in the next year as our family grows which means that this will be a very accessible school for us, and the one that she has been allocated will be further away - i obviously want to be careful about this because of the separate grammar school appeals, though each appeal should technically be independent and separate. i dont want anyone to say that because you're moving house, the grammar school will be further away.
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Trafford - examples of questions asked by the panel @ ap

Post by Etienne »

Mbrenno84 wrote:This school is the only school that is (1) non distance, non catchment area based for non-faith children. There are literally a set amount of places for non-faith done by random allocation. If i was going for a faith place i could appeal based on religion, distance and oversubscription. The non-faith element takes all those away bar the oversubscription i guess. (2) it is the one school we actually visited before the pandemic hit as it was always our local authority school of choice, after the grammar schools. if she got a grammar school, that would have taken priority. I would prefer her to go here, rather than to the local authority school she has been allocated on based on school performance. it is a better school based on exam performance, progress 8, and ofsted reporting (3) we are looking to move in the next year as our family grows which means that this will be a very accessible school for us, and the one that she has been allocated will be further away - i obviously want to be careful about this because of the separate grammar school appeals, though each appeal should technically be independent and separate. i dont want anyone to say that because you're moving house, the grammar school will be further away.
Possible reasons you could give:

a) Based on exam performance, progress 8, and ofsted, the school would be a very good academic fit for my daughter who achieves highly. (Attach a brief letter of support from the current school estimating her KS2 levels - or the last school report. No need to go into the sort of detail recommended for grammar schools as it's not a qualification appeal.)

b) Although we are not members of the church, we would greatly value the ethos of the school. (If applicable.)

c) This is the one school we actually visited before the pandemic hit as it was always our preferred non-selective school.


Cautionary note. Although there's an allocation of a number of non-faith places, I'm guessing there may be a view that the school exists primarily to serve the needs of its own faith community, and has already done enough in its admission arrangements to show a commitment to the wider community.
I suspect that being a member of the faith could be seen as a stronger reason for an appeal (even though on its own it still might not be sufficient to outweigh the prejudice).
Etienne
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