Appeal Hearing Taking Place At The School

loveandlight · Post by **loveandlight** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:21 pm

Thank you very much Snowdrops I appeciate it.

Post by **Etienne** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:22 pm

Dear loveandlight

I do understand that this is not the same issue you posted about originally, but it's already hard enough to find one's way around the forum. In our view a separate thread for every single question is not practicable. We need to distinguish between browsing the forum out of interest, and looking for answers to specific questions. The easiest way for others to find specific information is not to browse the forum but to run a search using keywords, and/or to check the Q&As (where we list some of the most important/popular questions).

When helping someone prepare for an appeal, moderators in the past have wasted a lot of time ploughing through a multiplicity of threads to refresh their memory about just the one case. It's so much better from our point of view to have most if not all the details of the case in one place. Hence the guidelines about posting.

I know that I have to submit any medical evidence in support of my secondary school appeal but do I also include things like the school prospectus and copies of the school policies etc if I am quoting extracts from them?

You are right to try and substantiate everything. However, this appears to be a foundation school running its own appeals, so it should be safe to assume that the panel are familiar with the school's prospectus and policies.

You can take two precautions.

1. When quoting, you can say at the hearing "I'm sure the presenting officer [i.e. the headteacher or whoever is representing the school] will be happy to confirm that this is what the prospectus says ......"

2. You can take a copy of the document with you to the hearing, so that you can show it to the panel in the unlikely event that there's a query.

Hope this helps. I'm a great believer in backing up one's statements with evidence, but in this particular instance I think it would result in unnecessary paperwork for the panel.

loveandlight · Post by **loveandlight** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:47 pm

Thank you for your reply Etienne and for pointing out the problems you have as a moderator.

In answer to

However, this appears to be a foundation school running its own appeals, so it should be safe to assume that the panel are familiar with the school's prospectus and policies.

That makes sense and I'll take along the evidence with me just in case. It's also very stressful because the school in their appeal statement have given me out of date figures (last years) and I have by chance recieved this years Net Cap figures from elsewhere which clearly shows they have given me the wrong set of figures and indeed are basing their case on last years figures. I have been told not to tell them this until I get to the appeal so I can prove stage 1. I'm also trying to think about how best to handle this in front of the appeal panel so as not to cause the school any embarassment or humiliation as at the end of the day I just want a place for my DS!

loveandlight · Post by **loveandlight** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:51 pm

However, this appears to be a foundation school running its own appeals,

A thought has just occurred to me. Aren't the appeal panel supposed to be independant? If they are running their own appeals won't they be biased towards the school so is there any point in me appealing?

Post by **Etienne** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:13 pm

http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/11plus ... ers.php#a6

Even when an own-admission authority school IAP is doing an excellent job, it cannot be easy to overcome the perception that it may not be entirely independent.

A clue may be found in the number of successful appeals (information that should be available on request). If the success rate in recent years tends towards 0%, pessimism might not be entirely misplaced!

Because they have exceeded the PAN, you could also find out at the hearing ("How many of these extra places were the result of successful appeals?"

I'm also trying to think about how best to handle this in front of the appeal panel so as not to cause the school any embarassment or humiliation as at the end of the day I just want a place for my DS!

The best approach is always to appear reasonable, and not to go overtly into "attack mode". Simply ask probing questions, and let the panel draw their own conclusions.

The most important factor in the school case is likely to be class size. Could you tell me how many pupils there are on roll in the year group for which you're applying? Do they also give you a breakdown of class sizes (they may not)?

loveandlight · Post by **loveandlight** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:32 pm

Many thanks once again for your helpful reply.

dejavu · Post by **dejavu** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:30 pm

As always - Etienne's advice is extremely sound!

We won (to our amazement) two oversubscription appeals. Always back your statements up. I will be posting our saga shortly on the appropriate site now that the hols are soon over.

But I found that it was useful to ask a pertinent question (to put it on record) even though you knew the answer (and could back it up), and that it would be advantageous to DS's case, and that it was on record - just in case you need it later. If you have made a significant point and you can see that the clerk is not writing it down - ask the clerk that you would like it ion the record! For example: I asked why did Bucks have the sibling rule when allocating places and which meant that they would get offered places before those that were nearer the school (although we were in catchment, we were right at the edge and felt very discriminated against). My DD's brother was at the boys only next door - so we said that if she had been a boy, then we wouldn't have had a problem, as she would have got in. Although the LEA rep tried to make out that it depends on the school's policy - we could disprove it by saying that it was in the schools admission pack that was given. and that they accepted siblings first. I really think that the panel were genuinely surprised at the sibling rule in our case, particularly as the two schools were right next door, and were originally one school (I told then the history in my letter) and they still had very close links.

So good luck! You don't have to put everything into that first appeal - you can leave some relevant "gaps" which you know the answers to and can back up ! Toes crossed for you!

loveandlight · Post by **loveandlight** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:29 pm

Thank you dejavu that was very helpful and I'm very glad you won your two appeals.

You don't have to put everything into that first appeal

Sorry to be so dense but can you explain what you mean by this bit please?

dejavu · Post by **dejavu** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:24 am

I wrote a two page submission for one appeal (Etienne might say it was too long - but we had to explain single sex argument), and a one page submission for the other gs which was mixed sex (this school specialised in science and performing arts, and as DD excelled at both - which was easily backed up - gifted and talented for maths, high levels for science and member of science club, won drama cup, good at trumpet and belonged to junior wind band for 3 years, etc).

I found it helpful to write it with various headings eg single sex argument, peer support, logistics (this might be helpful for you - if we weren't allocated a Bucks grammar school and our entitled free transport, we would have had to take our DD to and from school in Bedfordshire, where we wouldn't have been entitled to free transport. I provided a copy of the bus time table and the fact that we were in a village and the nearest bus stop was 2 miles away - and showed the logistics on a map). Also, I am retraining to possibly go back to work - and if I had to pick her up at 3.30pm then it would severely restrict my chances of re-employment..

I made the main reasons in my original submission. but made sure that I added "the bits that I left out" in the answers and questions bit, and/or my final summing up eg. in the first submission for our first preference gs which has specialist language status - DD has a real interest in French (included a letter from head saying that she went to afterschool French Club for the last two years). But in the answers and questions bit I made sure that the panel knew that her current French teacher's contract had not been renewed - she had only been there for a year, and that she was off school for medical reasons, which was why DD didn't have a recent assessment for French, and although DD was asesssed to be level 4 at French, she was in a class that had level 1 children and it didn't work for any of the children.

But you will have to tailor your arguments to suit your case. Just make sure that when you go in that you have a card or piece of paper with key things on that you MUST NOT FORGET TO MENTION!!!! If they don't come up in the questions and answers bit, then you can mention them in your summing up - you have the last word!

loveandlight · Post by **loveandlight** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:26 pm

I really appreciate your reply dejavu and I can tell you have put a lot of work into the appeal and a lot of thought went into it and you must be so happy and relieved that it all paid off. The stress must have been unbearable for you at times as I know it is like that for me now.

My submissions will be 5 pages long back to back

but I don't have previous school records or school achievements to fall back on as I have been home schooling my DS by myself for five years now. My submissions will be made up of old medical evidence and an old Ed Psy report as well as one up to date academic report.I'm hoping that the school will take him because it is our nearest school and last year he went to a maths and english class two hours a week and was achieving a level 5 and 6 and they have given me a report showing he made excellent progress academically and socially so the school will see they are not getting a damaged child from a family who doesn't care about his education. He was assessed years ago when he was at primary school as being in the top 2% nationally but markedly underachieving.

I had to pull him out of primary school and teach him by myself as he had a nervous breakdown due to the bullying he suffered at school from the other kids and the teachers as well abused him. I had to give up a very successful professional career to educate him as our LEA at the time told us we were on our own as i was home educating him and not to expect any help from them. He couldn't have gone to another school at the time as he was in no fit state to go. He is now ready and wants to try secondary school as he is older now (he's 12) and we have moved to a new area to start afresh but unfortunately there are two senior schools on our door step that are both rated outstanding and therefore full and the third one which has been offered has a reputation for bullying and teachers are being laid off as pupil numbers are falling due to less funding from the govt because of the drop in pupil numbers. I cannot risk sending my DS to a school that has a bad reputation in case he regresses again. I am the only one really who can vouch for my DS hence why my submission is very long but nevertheless it is all content and relevant and none of it is waffle.

I am even thinking about trying to get my DS in under the Fair Access protocol if I fail this appeal as our LEA is different now that we have moved to a completely different area and I am hoping they will be more supportive