11 Plus Exams Forum

Here's a hint for those whose children have passed the 11+, but did not score high enough to gain a place, and didn't win their appeal for a place in Y7...

Some schools regularly go over PAN due to the appeal panel allowing appeals - for instance - the PAN may be 150, but each year say approx 10 appeals are allowed (so 5 classes of 32).

The school may well still have a waiting list, but can not give a place from that list until the numbers drop below PAN.

There may well still be some movement in Y7, Y8, and so on, so the class size drops below 32, and in fact the school may well be wishing that they could take more children to make up numbers.

It's worth checking every term with admissions for the school to see if the numbers have dropped - then if they have, you could consider an ad-hoc appeal for that year. Your child has passed the 11+, so they are qualified to join the school; you can prove that the school can comfortably cope with extra children (as they were running with 32 in a class) with out affecting the results.

It's a relatively easy way to get a place, as long as other parents don't try & do the same thing at the same time. The school are not allowed to 'invite' parents to appeal for a place! Of course, you can only appeal once per year, unless there has been a material change in the evidence, though you might try arguing that the numbers on the school roll dropping is a material change (not heard of it happening, but worth a shot).

Oh yes I agree. Keep on plugging away at appeals and waitings lists as at many school as you want for as long as you want. Don't take no for an answer from school secretaries etc who just tell you there is no point. Check regularly you are on the waiting list as different schools seem to do different things about keeping them / scrapping them from term to term. Also make sure that you didn't get taken off the list when you appealed.

A friend of my DD has recently got a place at TOGs (Kent) from the waiting list in year 8. Moving wouldn't suit everyone at this late stage but she is delighted and has settled in very well.

This approach is possible in Bucks but slightly more complicated, since the 11+ qualification is only valid for a year. I was told that it would lapse at the end of the autumn term in Y7 (i.e. Christmas) after which anyone still on the waiting list would have to apply to sit the 12+. However, if any vacances for January of the following term were notified before Christmas they would be offered to anyone still on the waiting list at that stage, before the 12+ was held.

This only applies to candidates not already in the Bucks system. If, for example, a successful OOC candidate takes up a place in a different grammar school in Bucks, they do not have to resit the test in order to transfer to a different GS.

Can someone advice whether this approach is possible in Glos grammer school. are the 11+ results valid for just one year?

I know a girl (well enough to know it to be true) who gained a place at a Glos grammar in Year 9 without having to take a test - reports from previous school were enough.

Hi
Does anyone know the situation in Kent please?

Also we are appealling now (June) so would we be able to appeal once more from Sept 2010 i.e. Y7 or is it per calendar year i.e. 2010.

I'm assuming that there would need to be new/different circumstances/a change/ a new "need" come to light/ extra "needs" etc etc. For example if my son struggled to settle or progress at his allocated school because of his SEN would that be a good enough reason?

Sorry lots of questions but having asked all that i'm not sure we could all go through the process again although i'm assuming it would be much quicker.

Fluffy

As I mentioned above my DDs friend was offered a place at ToGS in year 8. This was from the waiting list, the school let her know whenever there was movement and asked whether they wanted to stay on the list. Not sure what the case is with other Kent schools, I assume the schools administer their own waiting lists so policies may vary from school to school.

Each admission authority must maintain a waiting list for at least one term in the academic year of admission. A waiting list can (optionally) be maintained for more than one term, but details should be included in the admission arrangements.

Also we are appealling now (June) so would we be able to appeal once more from Sept 2010 i.e. Y7 or is it per calendar year i.e. 2010.

If you're appealing now for September 2010 entry, then the next opportunity would be for September 2011 entry, in which case the appeal would probably be heard in the summer term 2011.

I'm assuming that there would need to be new/different circumstances/a change/ a new "need" come to light/ extra "needs" etc etc. For example if my son struggled to settle or progress at his allocated school because of his SEN would that be a good enough reason?

If the question is about the possibility of a fresh appeal for 2010/11, then there would have to be significant new circumstances that were not available - and could not have been available - at the time of the first appeal. It would be for the admission authority to decide what is significant, but I would have thought that the new circumstances would have to relate to the school at which you are seeking a place (e.g. moving into the catchment area of the school), and something which would have been considered significant if known about at the previous hearing.

If, as seems more likely, we're talking about an appeal for 2011/12, then the answer is 'not necessarily'.
The test to be applied by the panel each time is simply whether the parent's case is strong enough to outweigh any prejudice to the school (the 'balance of prejudice'). Factors which might affect the outcome are whether the school's case is presented as strongly as it was before, how strong the cases of any other appellants are, and whether it's a different panel with a different view of the 'balance of prejudice'.

Thanks for explaining it more clearly for me Etienne.

What i didn't say, and i don't know if it affects the answer, is that our appeals are for non-qualification and oversubscription. So we are not going to get a place from any waiting list. I'm assuming my DC would need to be re-tested and if he was then deamed suitable for a grammar school could that be seen as significant new circumstances?

I can't believe i'm asking these questions now as we haven't even had our first appeal and our second is right at the end of June ..............who was it started this thread. Wish i'd have been as informed this time last year.

Fluffy