Bucks appeal
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I confess to just occasionally making judgements about cases mentioned in the forum, but - when I remember to put it in! - it's usually with the proviso "based on the information available". We rarely know all the facts .............
There's quite a lot we don't know about LG's case: what the other 11+ score was, how realistic the head's recommendations were (e.g. what percentage of the "1"s actually scored 131-141? what percentage of the "2"s actually scored 121-130?), whether the school was officially predicting three 5s or even high level 5s, what other standardised VR scores such as CATs were available, exactly how the head's statement of support was worded with reference to academic potential, which quartile for English and Maths (and in what sort of year group?), what school reports revealed in terms of achievement grades, what evidence supported the extenuating circumstances .............
It wouldn't be fair to expect people to go into too much detail publicly about their cases, but even if all the above points were satisfactorily covered, there might still have been other evidence that swayed the panel one way rather than another.
If both scores were 118, then I think this might have been a very borderline case, and borderline cases are usually the ones that could go either way.
I think the ombudsman would fully accept that two different panels could come to different conclusions about the same case, especially a very borderline one. What matters, from the ombudsman's point of view, is that all of the evidence has been properly considered, and that the decision is a reasoned one.
Dear LG, I do understand your distress, and nothing I have written above is meant in any way to disparage your case. I'm simply saying that I wouldn't like to judge it because I don't know enough about it.
It might help to know that there is a section specifically about the ombudsman at the very end of the Q&As:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/11plus ... nswers.php
Regards
There's quite a lot we don't know about LG's case: what the other 11+ score was, how realistic the head's recommendations were (e.g. what percentage of the "1"s actually scored 131-141? what percentage of the "2"s actually scored 121-130?), whether the school was officially predicting three 5s or even high level 5s, what other standardised VR scores such as CATs were available, exactly how the head's statement of support was worded with reference to academic potential, which quartile for English and Maths (and in what sort of year group?), what school reports revealed in terms of achievement grades, what evidence supported the extenuating circumstances .............
It wouldn't be fair to expect people to go into too much detail publicly about their cases, but even if all the above points were satisfactorily covered, there might still have been other evidence that swayed the panel one way rather than another.
If both scores were 118, then I think this might have been a very borderline case, and borderline cases are usually the ones that could go either way.
I think the ombudsman would fully accept that two different panels could come to different conclusions about the same case, especially a very borderline one. What matters, from the ombudsman's point of view, is that all of the evidence has been properly considered, and that the decision is a reasoned one.
Dear LG, I do understand your distress, and nothing I have written above is meant in any way to disparage your case. I'm simply saying that I wouldn't like to judge it because I don't know enough about it.
It might help to know that there is a section specifically about the ombudsman at the very end of the Q&As:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/11plus ... nswers.php
Regards
Etienne
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LG
Thanks to everyone for their support and comments and thanks Etienne for, as always, helping to keep things on an even keel and being realistic.
I agree, it would be impossible to state everything about the case on this forum and in fact one member of the panel was particularly damming of the head teachers recommendations, as admittedly, they were a bit ambitious for about 50% of the cases (which does not help us at all!). We really did feel walking away that day, that if the case was unsuccessful it would be down to this disputed point (but who are we to know?)
I suppose that what I am trying to say is that other pupils at the school had successful appeals based on the same figures for the head teachers recommendations, therefore where is the standardisation across the appeal panels?
LG
I agree, it would be impossible to state everything about the case on this forum and in fact one member of the panel was particularly damming of the head teachers recommendations, as admittedly, they were a bit ambitious for about 50% of the cases (which does not help us at all!). We really did feel walking away that day, that if the case was unsuccessful it would be down to this disputed point (but who are we to know?)
I suppose that what I am trying to say is that other pupils at the school had successful appeals based on the same figures for the head teachers recommendations, therefore where is the standardisation across the appeal panels?
LG
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Sally-Anne
- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi LG
I am so sorry that your appeal wasn't successful. I think the main factor was the 118 score. You were working uphill on that. Do get the case notes to put your mind at rest.
I wish I had got my son's notes last year, simply because I wouldn't still be coming up with the mistakes that I made at the time - without the benefit of advice from this forum, I hasten to add, as I was too new on it.
I do think that Appeal panels are very variable and the training needs to be improved. I had a lengthy conversation last year with a Forum Member called Chins, both on the forum and by email, as we both had the same panel on the same day. We felt they were not particularly empathetic. It wasn't grounds for a further appeal in either case, but I certainly made a mental note that, as soon as I become eligible (once my children are beyond 11+, if I am correct Etienne?), I will apply to be a panel member!
Sally-Anne
I am so sorry that your appeal wasn't successful. I think the main factor was the 118 score. You were working uphill on that. Do get the case notes to put your mind at rest.
I wish I had got my son's notes last year, simply because I wouldn't still be coming up with the mistakes that I made at the time - without the benefit of advice from this forum, I hasten to add, as I was too new on it.
I do think that Appeal panels are very variable and the training needs to be improved. I had a lengthy conversation last year with a Forum Member called Chins, both on the forum and by email, as we both had the same panel on the same day. We felt they were not particularly empathetic. It wasn't grounds for a further appeal in either case, but I certainly made a mental note that, as soon as I become eligible (once my children are beyond 11+, if I am correct Etienne?), I will apply to be a panel member!
Sally-Anne
