Appeal query (Bucks)

[mm23292]

I received a little more clarification on the report, which basically says.. 'the results do not preclude a grammar school, but her scores do not point conclusively to that being the right type of school either. You are right that an Appeal board would be most impressed by scores in he "superior" range as that is undoubtedly of high enough ability, but there are plenty of children at grammar school in the "above average" range too.
Her dyslexic-type weakness will definitely impact her scores in spelling. In an appeal this is what you should concentrate on. The semantic and verbal fluency show good verbal ability and understanding. They are not, however, tests of logic.
Re dyslexia: DD has traits of mild dyslexia - relatively weak working memory, non-phonological errors in reading and spelling and below average phonological ability. This is not impacting her comprehension or Maths, but is impacting her spelling'.

On that basis, it seems that this discovery might contribute towards an exonerating circumstance as to why she didn't do as well, but also may detract from the academic ability evidence we already have.
If she has been performing as well as or better than many of her peers who are now heading to GS, is this a indicator that I should still be pursuing this case, in spite of this, albeit mild, learning difficulty..that is the question I keep asking myself.
Has anyone else discovered an LD at the appeals stage in this way, and if so, what did you do? Did you use the evidence, or choose to ignore it..and what was the outcome? I know it would have really helped if the ability scores had been a little higher, but has anyone had a successful case with a below superior ability / mild LD EP report combination such as this? Would be grateful for any feedback of similar..thanks

[Globalinc]

Hi mm
We got an EP report with a surprise diagnosis (that, like yours, makes sense in hindsight) of dyspraxia. At the appointment, I also reacted in the same way: should we go forward? Is GS suitable? I think this was my surprise speaking more than anything.

We don't have our answer yet, and I will let the experts guide you on whether or not you should include the evidence (we did, but our situation is different to yours)- but I will say this: your child has not changed since the assessment. She is every bit as bright as before. There are “soft skills” that are not measured by any test which affect how well we all do in different situations. Consider your child in terms of what you yourself know alongside any other information.

[fm]

I tutor for grammar school and my pupils tend to roughly fit into 3 categories: those so bright you are almost certain they are going to pass, those that are fairly bright and should also pass, and those that will possibly pass if they work really hard and do the right preparation and a bit of luck is with them. Only a few marks often separates the last category from those who do not attain grammar school.

There are those who think children in the last category may not really be grammar school material but my experience has been that fairly often it is these children who do well when they get to grammar school because they are hard workers. It is sometimes the ones in the middle category who got in with more ease and less work who don't do so well because they are reasonably smart but not especially hard working, and they are not so smart that they can 'wing it'.

I suspect your daughter is the hard-working kind because she is in top sets at a good primary despite having a mild learning difficulty. If she is already holding her own with children who have managed to pass, then there is no reason why she should not continue to do so at secondary school.

Pass or fail, she is still the child in whom you had enough confidence to enter for grammar school.

If she is a hard worker, I would pursue the appeal (without involving your daughter in the whole process too much) rather than possibly regret not doing so, but, at the same time, don't talk yourself into believing that your daughter's whole future rests on your winning it.

[Etienne]

has anyone had a successful case with a below superior ability / mild LD EP report

I'm quite sure this has happened, but it has to be looked at in relation to the rest of the evidence.
For example, a child with mild dyslexia and a high score (say, 119) is in a stronger position than a child with mild dyslexia and a lower score (say, 114).

I've no doubt there are children who succeed at grammar school with above average ability. It's easier to win an appeal, however, with superior ability (not necessarily under every heading - but the more evidence the better).

Thanks for sending in the report. Will comment when I've had time to digest it.

Not sure if I've overlooked it - do we have the other 11+ score?

[mm23292]

Thank you FM and Globalinc for your supportive comments. I definitely see where you are coming from fm..my nephew sounds like he fits the middle profile..passed with ease but not doing so well because he is not inclined to put the work in. Very frustrating to see such a good opportunity being squandered! And globalinc, good luck with your case too, it certainly makes an already stressful situation, all the more complicated, so I hope it has a positive outcome for you.

Etienne, the other score was 108, first paper when she became ill..I have the letter from school confirming this..thank you for all your help

[mm23292]

Having queried whether any correlation could be drawn between the WRIT & WRAT scores, my EP has advised that this is not possible, nor advised. She also mentioned there were two appeals successful last year, which had lower attainment and ability scores than DD. Taking that into consideration, along with the strong HT support, and allowing for the fact that any VR score, CAT, 11plus or otherwise, was always going to be compromised by this difficulty, I just feel that I would rather present the whole picture, warts and all so to speak, and let the panel decide what is best. While I appreciate there are aspects of this report that may cast great doubt across the panel, I honestly don't think I can sit before them and speak with the conviction I feel I ought to, while knowing there is such a fundamental piece of evidence not on the table. So on that basis, and with the appeal date looming on Wednesday, I have rung the appeals team and told them I wish to submit this report. Given the lateness of this, they want me to email it so they can try and get it to the panel on time. My question is, do I simply email it as it is, and incorporate it into my appeal speech on the day, or do I have to re-submit my appeal letter along with an updated exonerating circumstance / academic evidence summary also?
Thanks

[Etienne]

No need at all to re-do your appeal submission. Simply tell the panel on the day why you decided to submit the new evidence.

I just feel that I would rather present the whole picture, warts and all so to speak, and let the panel decide what is best. While I appreciate there are aspects of this report that may cast great doubt across the panel, I honestly don't think I can sit before them and speak with the conviction I feel I ought to, while knowing there is such a fundamental piece of evidence not on the table.

I think they may well appreciate your honesty.

[mm23292]

Thanks for all your replies Etienne, much appreciated as always.
I am concerned about one aspect of this (well one of many!), that I hope you can answer. Given that DD was one point away from being eligible to qualify for EAA, I was wondering if this would in someway 'negate' the exonerating impact of this difficulty? For instance, if this LD had come to light before the 11plus, would the panel be of the opinion that, given the fact that no concessions would have applied before the test, then neither should any concession apply retrospectively?
Or would they assume as I presume would be the case, that if this had come to light and had been addressed by the specialist help she is now due to have, she would not have been disadvantaged in the way she was? Do I need to somehow prove that this help would have made a difference to her performance, or will the panel be aware of the implications of dyslexia and the benefits that a specialist help programme may have given? I am becoming increasingly concerned that I might be in the position of having to explain or answer questions on a topic that I know little of, other than what my EP has rather breifly explained. I hope I am fretting unnecessarily! Many Thanks..

[Etienne]

I am becoming increasingly concerned that I might be in the position of having to explain or answer questions on a topic that I know little of

I think the best approach would be to tell the panel that you don't claim fully to understand the report, but believe it goes some way to explaining the 11+ result. You could say that you're not sure how much it helps your case, but that you wanted to be honest and for them to have all the information available. Finally you could say that you trust them to make the right decision for your daughter, and will respect whatever judgement they come to.

You may well be asked whether you think your daughter has a 'disability' as defined in law. I suggest you insist you don't know - all you know is that you've been told there are some indications of a learning difficulty.

Or would they assume as I presume would be the case, that if this had come to light and had been addressed by the specialist help she is now due to have, she would not have been disadvantaged in the way she was?

I would have thought you should ask the panel to treat this as an extenuating circumstance to explain the shortfall in marks. If they accept this, then they won't be speculating about how much difference specialist help might have made. (You could point out that you believe it would have made a difference, but you won't be expected to prove it.)

What the panel will consider next - and what is usually critical - is whether there is sufficient evidence of high ability overall to allow the appeal.

[mm23292]

Thank you so much Etienne, that has really halped clarify things, and all so very succinctly too! Your seemingly all hours devotion to helping us all on this forum are truly commendable.