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 Post subject: Re: Appeal query
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:04 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:59 am
Posts: 2079
Why don't you contact the school. I'm sure they will be able to clarify the situation.

Edited to add:
There is a description on the GL Assessment Website which may clarify.
http://www.gl-assessment.co.uk/educatio ... g/faqs.asp
in particular the testwise user guide. http://www.testingforschools.com/help/Help.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal query
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:42 pm
Posts: 9
Hi MM

Our school did VR and NVR tests in Sept 09 only (Y5) none done in Y6. As far as we were concerned our DD was doing v. well and all indictors/test results showed a reasonable pass. DD didn't achieve a pass and so went to HT and found VR NVR score of 105 and 109 in Y5. Couldn't understand this and after a couple of other things asked to see the papers. Our school do hard copy, not on line.

To their great credit the school retrieved the papers from the archive and it showed that DD had actually missed out great chunks and ran out of time. In Y5 she didn't know the consequences and timings were her strong point. Of the questions she answered she got 95%. I am hoping the IAP will accept this (hopefully with a note from HT).

Ask your school if they can retrieve/analyse the paper, there may be a logical explanation.

Good luck

Jacket1


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal query (Bucks)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:56 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:57 am
Posts: 291
Thanks Mitasol & Jacket1, apologies about the new thread.. All this scrutiny, seems way too intense for a 10yo. Long gone the days when it was as simple as poor, good or brilliant! Anyway, I have asked the HT to look into it, so here's hoping for a swift response..


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal query (Bucks)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:57 am
Posts: 291
Picking up where I left off on this one..the outcome of my query regarding the low Quantitative CAT score, was that the school have sent a letter to the panel, stating that they do not believe that the score in her most recent test, is an accurate reflection of her abilities, and the work she routinely produces in class. Should I be satisfied with this, or more importantly, would the Appeals panel be satisfied? :?


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal query (Bucks)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7501
I think you should be satisfied, but what weight the panel will give might possibly be influenced by how realistic they think the school's overall recommendations are.

See the discussion here:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=18217&p=218160&hilit=I+have+just+received+our+appeal+papers#p218160

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal query (Bucks)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:57 am
Posts: 291
Thank you for your reply Etienne. Out of interest, and having read the thread from Mango with regards to HT recommendations..when you speak of reliabilty of those recommendations, would the panel base that on the accuracy of each band, or on recommendations overall? For instance, in that thread, the 1's had over 50% success, but the 2's had only a third. Would that cast greater doubt on a child who was graded a 2?
Furthermore, is it the case that the reliability of a HTR is solely based on the outcome v prediction, for that years 11plus performance, or is the school looked at in general terms of success over time, such as SAT's league tables etc? I know the school my DD attends is highly regarded, a quick glance at a recent league table would appear to support that view..but would the panel be aware of that..and would it make any difference?

Thanks for all your feedback..not just here, but throughout the forum. Not always exactly comforting..but always very helpful!


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal query (Bucks)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7501
Quote:
Thanks for all your feedback..not just here, but throughout the forum. Not always exactly comforting..but always very helpful!
Thank you for your kind words (and sorry not to offer greater comfort! :)).

mm23292 wrote:
would the panel base that on the accuracy of each band, or on recommendations overall? For instance, in that thread, the 1's had over 50% success, but the 2's had only a third. Would that cast greater doubt on a child who was graded a 2?
I think it likely panels would look at the overall recommendations. One would expect the success rate for the '2's to be lower, as they may well include borderline candidates.

Quote:
Furthermore, is it the case that the reliability of a HTR is solely based on the outcome v prediction, for that years 11plus performance, or is the school looked at in general terms of success over time, such as SAT's league tables etc? I know the school my DD attends is highly regarded, a quick glance at a recent league table would appear to support that view..but would the panel be aware of that..and would it make any difference?
The appeal papers in recent years included a summary of the school's last KS2 results, but I'm not sure what is happening this year. There was the complication of the SATs boycott last May. There may also have been a concern that previous SATs results say nothing about the ability of the current year 6. However, if your child is doing well at an (historically) high performing school, I think it's a point worth making.

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal query (Bucks)
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:57 am
Posts: 291
While yet still waiting for the appeal pack, I thought I would summarise everything we have, and from that, some remaining questions. I hope I am not overdoing this! It is not a promising picture, but nothing ventured…
To re-cap.. 108 and 116. No one specific extenuating circumstance. We had all been hit in quick succession with tummy bugs, colds and flu in the weeks prior, but she had been back at school for over a week with no signs of illness before she took test 1, which was a disaster; she battled the urge to be sick all the way through, and finally did as she was leaving the room, to her great distress and embarrassment. I have a letter confirming I was called to come and collect her, and she was completely distraught when I arrived. Cried frequently in the following week. Started sleepwalking (trait her Dad has had very occasionally, last time when he lost his father 10 years ago), Dad had to go on business to States that week, 1yo sister was ill with high fever in the two days before, so the three of us had little sleep. I asked her if she wanted to defer, but she wanted to get it out of the way, and was determined it would be 'better this time'.
Strong HT support. HT letter includes the following comment ‘assessments supported by Fisher Family Trust data, are for DD to achieve good level 5 results in all core subjects’.
She has made great progress since mid YR 5, following the ‘friendship issues’ which caused her great upset for quite some time.
HTR 2.2.. and then the contentious CAT scores.
Jan 2010 just prior to her period of great improvement - VR 114, Quantitative 108
Sept 2010 – VR 122 and the dear oh dear..95!!!
Having queried the 95, on the basis that her numeracy progress had been deemed ‘outstanding’, coupled with the fact that she was dogged by illness that month, (not to mention my doubts concerning the 2 pupils with same name, and no password to enter on taking the test!) the YR 6 teachers sent a letter of support, with a note half way down, which basically states that they do not feel that the recent CAT score for QR, accurately reflects the standard of work she routinely produces. I know you have said this should be sufficient, but do I need to draw their attention to this in a bigger way, or will they note this regardless? How important is this score? I can’t help being plagued by the sight of this 95 screaming out from the centre of the HTR!
Is the VR score more relevant here, and is the 122 and the fact it someway reflects the recent phase of improvement discussed in her report, enough? Her reading age is 13.9 per 2 methods of testing, which they have noted, is the maximum score.

Yr 5 report - all 4’s, but do I need this if the predictions are all for good 5’s? The report is good, states ‘outstanding progress in Maths’ ..shame the CAT score didn’t reflect that!
Her particular excellence is in drama, both her English teacher and the HT comment on that.. is that a useful comment?

Basically, do I need stronger academic evidence than this, I have been trying to get an EP, but all are unavailable until after the appeal date.
Also, I have just received a letter confirming the illness on the day of the test and the ‘friendship’ issue; can I bring this on the day, in case a discussion arises, or should I send beforehand with some elaboration. (My appeal letter was quite brief!!)
Apologies for all these questions, the more I think about it, the more hopeless a case it all seems :(


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal query (Bucks)
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8789
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi mm23292

I have sent you a PM.

Sally-Anne


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal query (Bucks)
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7501
You've a very long list of extenuating circumstances, and if you're not careful it might start to sound like a long list of 'excuses'. By all means put them forward, but do so very, very briefly, and leave it to the panel to ask you questions about anything they want to pursue.

Quote:
I asked her if she wanted to defer, but she wanted to get it out of the way, and was determined it would be 'better this time'.
You're on weak ground here, I'm afraid. If the parent allows the child to go in for the test, it has to be assumed the child is in a fit state, unless the child falls ill during the test.


Quote:

not to mention my doubts concerning the 2 pupils with same name, and no password to enter on taking the test!)
I hope you're not going to raise these points. Not worth it unless you have proof something was wrong.

Quote:
the YR 6 teachers sent a letter of support, with a note half way down, which basically states that they do not feel that the recent CAT score for QR, accurately reflects the standard of work she routinely produces. I know you have said this should be sufficient, but do I need to draw their attention to this in a bigger way?
No - you're in danger of them thinking "She doth protest too much"!

Quote:
Yr 5 report - all 4’s, but do I need this if the predictions are all for good 5’s? The report is good, states ‘outstanding progress in Maths’ ..shame the CAT score didn’t reflect that!
Might be worth including for the outstanding progress in maths?

Quote:
Her particular excellence is in drama, both her English teacher and the HT comment on that.. is that a useful comment?
I don't think the non-academic subjects are going to count.

Quote:
Basically, do I need stronger academic evidence than this?
Only your panel can decide if they have enough evidence.

Quote:
Also, I have just received a letter confirming the illness on the day of the test and the ‘friendship’ issue; can I bring this on the day, in case a discussion arises, or should I send beforehand with some elaboration. (My appeal letter was quite brief!!)
Best to submit in advance, but beware of over-elaborating! Much better to let them see the evidence and ask you questions if they want to know more.

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Etienne


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