Who's been for their appeal already?

[mm23292]

Congratulations Mamaj and Cola, and so sorry and surprised to hear your disappointing news firs. It seems it's not just the lottery of the test and how they fare on the day, but looking at some of the credentials that seem destined without doubt for success, it is the lottery of the panel chosen to hear your case...there is a lot of empathy going your way, hope you and your DS feel less unhappy soon.

[mm23292]

Etienne, there was something I wanted to ask regarding the information that is handed over for 'private review' at the end of the hearing..reports and workbooks etc. In your experience, is the decision usually made by the stage the parent leaves the room..or does the content of what is reviewed, ever fundamentally change the decision? It seems such a short time, 5 minutes or so, and I have heard that the decision takes place immediately, so was just wondering. Thanks

[Etienne]

Huge sympathy for those who haven't had good news, and many congratulations to those who have.

Just a cautionary story about not rushing to judgement:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... aneous#e24" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not saying for one moment that any of the cases on here resemble that of 'John' or 'Janet' - but I would suggest that, if even panel members who've sat through an entire case find it sometimes extremely difficult to come to a decision, it's not really possible for us to assess someone else's case second-hand, without having seen all of the evidence, and heard all of the questions & answers.

Etienne, there was something I wanted to ask regarding the information that is handed over for 'private review' at the end of the hearing..reports and workbooks etc. In your experience, is the decision usually made by the stage the parent leaves the room

In my experience this never happened. Exercise books etc. (if available) were looked at. The chair then summed up the case in detail. There would then be a discussion. And finally the vote.

I can recall one or two cases where school work really did have a significant impact - but usually it was just one bit of the evidence.

I know 5 minutes or so doesn't seem long, but the panel aren't marking the work like schoolteachers, and reading every word. It's not too difficult to skim through an English, Maths & Science exercise book, and get an overall impression, based on the teacher's marks/comments. Similarly with a school report - a quick look at the comments (English & Maths especially), the SATs levels (if available), and the number of ticks in the 'top column' (if there's some sort of performance grid).

[dejavu]

Yes Etienne, as you may well recall - we were one of those few cases when school books made a significant (negative) impact. Dd had 118, Ofsted outstanding primary school, top 25% in English and maths out of a very high achieving year, predicted 5s in sats, 2.1 rec, very high spelling and reading ages. And at the end of the appeal the chair said "you obviously have a very bright daughter and we are very well aware of her capabilities".

Then they looked at the school books for 5 or 10 minutes - which were very neat, and had some good marks in them. But, our appeal was unsuccessful - and all three panel members (when we got hold of ther clerk's notes) said "her schoolwork, as seen, is not up to the standard expected for gs - because of her young age, she should consider taking the 11+ at a later date (end of Aug birthday)".

Next step Ombudsman - got to a high level of review, but unsuccessful, but got there via 12+ eventually....... Good luck to all appellants - you have done - or will do - your very best and you have the best advice and support possible. But, I think a lot of it is the lap of the Gods and who is on your appeal panel.

Take care.

[Woolford]

dejavu,

just wondering ... can you ask for a copy of the clerks notes out of interest, or only if you are appealing to the ombudsman?

don't know my ds results yet - and will accept the outcome - but just have a slight feeling our case will be very similar to yours, as we were asked "is it the right time now for your ds to go to grammar school?" - I had a feeling a couple of times they were pointing to his young age and immaturity and that maybe the 12+ would be better!

could be completely wrong ... tomorrow should bring the letter .. and we will see

[dejavu]

Hi Woolford

Anyone can ask for the clerk's notes in Bucks - you just have to send a cheque to county for £10 (thats how much it cost me a couple of years ago) and request a copy in writing quoting the Data Protection Act - best just to phone and check the cost. I was going to ask for a copy even if I had passed - just out of interest, and to share it on the Forum. It was only when we got the notes back that we realised that there might be a case for the Ombudsman - under the maladministration criteria (if you feel the panel didn't follow the code - that's the only criteria you can use for the Ombudsman). Feel free to pm me - I know how you feel - but you really have given your all, so don't beat yourself up[ about it.

[Morning Glory]

We won our appeal last year but I still requested the clerks notes. We had an extremely complex case so was interested to know exactly how and why they had come to their decision. Dejavu is correct with the cost and how you request them.

During the hearing the clerk writes downs each question and your answer. There is also a decision making form which they complete, this notes down what they discuss when you leave the room. Our deliberation took 40 minutes, it states the time on the form (we did however have a complex case with low scores, DDA issues to be considered and EP, OT and SALT assessments so I suspect it took longer than most). At the bottom of this form it states whether the deliberations were adjourned, whether legal advice was requested and whether the DDA pro-forma was used (although used I never received a copy of the DDA flow chart). There is then a Overall Results form which states whether your appeal is successful or not and whether it was unanimous or a majority verdict. Reasons for decision are then noted down against each panel member, our decision was unanimous so they did a group statement and then all signed the form.

Hope this information helps.

[Woolford]

Morning Glory - many thanks for the info ... that is really interesting! Don't know my result yet, but the notes sound like they make interesting reading either way!!

Kind thanks and hope to report back later today with results .... although after The Firs experience, I am bracing myself for the news and realise that the system is a lottery!!

[Rob Clark]

Just one word of caution re. requesting the clerk’s notes. You can read them and completely disagree with what they say, feel that they have failed to consider and/or misconstrued some of the evidence but nevertheless find no reason for an appeal to the Ombudsman which, as dejavu points out, can only consider points of maladministration.

Our appeal panel did exactly what was expected of them. However, we felt that they had absolutely no understanding of DD’s chronic medical condition or its possible impact on her test results, and if they did indeed read the medical evidence we provided there was no reference to it whatsoever in any of the notes (just as there wasn’t any reference to it in our incompetent HT’s report).

This can leave you with an intense feeling of frustration (you can probably tell ) but nowhere to go.

[Looking for help]

Like Rob, our notes when we finally got them (with the help of the ombudsman, I have to say) reflected nothing about what evidence was taken into account, nor how a decision was reached in our case. I am a little bit interested in differences between counties....is there a prescribed format for these notes to follow in Bucks, and if so, must they be followed, or is it up to individual panels/clerks to record proceedings as they see fit?

The firs, I am terribly sorry about your news, and hope that you feel better about it all soon - I can tell you from experience, that you do get through it, and probably come out of it all stronger than you were. It may take a while though. My son is in year 8 and doing well, not obviously at the school we wanted, but nevertheless I see at this stage no reason why he should amount to academically any less than his brother and sisters who have come through the grammar system in Slough.

Well done to others who have succeeded.