BUCKS Appeals
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Guest
I spent many years hearing selection appeals. What follows are just my own views – other panel members might think differently.
Appeals with scores close to 121 are more likely to succeed, but each case is considered on its own merits. I know of one case that was upheld with a score in the 90s, but the circumstances were very exceptional. The further away from 121, the stronger the case needs to be.
Panels are usually looking for two things: extenuating circumstances and evidence of very high academic ability.
Unsuccessful appellants sometimes say “We had very strong mitigating circumstances, and cannot understand why the panel didn’t accept them …..”
It may be that the panel did fully accept the mitigating circumstances, but was not persuaded by the academic evidence. Or it may be that the panel was not convinced that the circumstances fully explained the shortfall in marks.
For example, a child has scores of 110 and 120. The night before the first test father was taken into hospital, everybody was stressed, nobody got much sleep. There is a letter from hospital confirming that the events were traumatic. It would be reasonable to conclude that the scores were affected.
Second example: grandmother in Scotland fell seriously ill in March, and has been in hospital ever since. However, school reports for the autumn term indicate no dip in performance: the child is doing very well indeed and is predicted three 5s in SATs. It might be reasonable to assume that the 11+ scores were not affected.
Academic evidence can sometimes be problematic:
1. Headteacher recommendation. The average headteacher recommends twice as many pupils as actually achieve the required standard. I am told that this year there has been a return to the system whereby heads give their rankings in advance of the 11+, so panels will see how well schools know their pupils and whether they are overestimating.
2. SATs. There is no direct correlation between SATs and the 11+. Three 5s would probably be regarded as encouraging but inconclusive. They are predictions, so again there could be an element of overestimating. They measure other qualities.
3. Schoolwork. Carefully selected pieces of work, printed off from a computer, might be viewed with a degree of caution! Who is to know under what circumstances the work was done and how much help was given? Exercise books showing routine classwork are likely to be more informative.
4. Other test results and educational psychologist reports. These are not strictly comparable with the 11+ either because they are standardised differently or because they are done under very different circumstances.
So what makes for a really good appeal? Firstly, as many of the following academic indicators as possible:
1. Two respectable 11+ scores (e.g. 119 and 118 carry more weight than 119 and 108)
2. A headteacher whose predictions are realistic and who does not write exactly the same thing for every single appeal. His/her words will be scrutinised to see whether there is some sort of reference to “very high academic ability”, and any indication of something exceptional about the case.
3. Encouraging SATs predictions
4. High standardised test scores from school (say, 126+)
5. Good routine academic work, in the child’s own handwriting, that has not been specially selected.
Secondly, strong extenuating circumstances clearly linked to the time of the tests, with strong supporting evidence.
A few suggested Do’s and Don’t’s:
1 Parents sometimes think that the more they write, and the more they say, the stronger their appeal. I would suggest that the best appeals can be presented on one side of A4, plus supporting evidence. The more succinct you are, the clearer your key points will be.
2 Don’t spend time saying how wonderful your child is at extracurricular activities unless the panel ask you a specific question. Extracurricular activites may be mentioned in the appeals booklet, but are very unlikely to influence a panel’s decision.
3 Similarly letters of commendation from relatives, neighbours, club secretaries, and sports coaches are unlikely to influence a panel.
4 “My child hasn’t been coached” rarely makes much of an impact. Panels are aware of NFER’s contention that their familiarisation papers and practice provide “saturation” preparation.
5 Don’t spend time saying how wonderful grammar schools are. It’s a mistake to think that panel members are all committed to the 11+. Some are strongly opposed but are doing their best to make the system work and to give parents the opportunity of an appeal without recourse to judicial review. Whether a panel member believes in selection or not has no bearing on the result of an appeal, and I would discourage parents from giving their own views about the system at a hearing.
6 Do submit all your evidence in advance, or if that is not possible bring it on the day. It doesn't help to say "If you'd like a letter from my doctor I'm sure he'll write one"!
As to whether some pupils are inappropriately placed, it is not really the task of an appeals panel to decide which school would be best (although I’m sure panel members would hope that what they do is ultimately in the child’s best interests). Strictly speaking the task of a panel is to decide whether the evidence is sufficiently compelling to overturn the LEA’s decision.
I hope these comments may be of some help.
Appeals with scores close to 121 are more likely to succeed, but each case is considered on its own merits. I know of one case that was upheld with a score in the 90s, but the circumstances were very exceptional. The further away from 121, the stronger the case needs to be.
Panels are usually looking for two things: extenuating circumstances and evidence of very high academic ability.
Unsuccessful appellants sometimes say “We had very strong mitigating circumstances, and cannot understand why the panel didn’t accept them …..”
It may be that the panel did fully accept the mitigating circumstances, but was not persuaded by the academic evidence. Or it may be that the panel was not convinced that the circumstances fully explained the shortfall in marks.
For example, a child has scores of 110 and 120. The night before the first test father was taken into hospital, everybody was stressed, nobody got much sleep. There is a letter from hospital confirming that the events were traumatic. It would be reasonable to conclude that the scores were affected.
Second example: grandmother in Scotland fell seriously ill in March, and has been in hospital ever since. However, school reports for the autumn term indicate no dip in performance: the child is doing very well indeed and is predicted three 5s in SATs. It might be reasonable to assume that the 11+ scores were not affected.
Academic evidence can sometimes be problematic:
1. Headteacher recommendation. The average headteacher recommends twice as many pupils as actually achieve the required standard. I am told that this year there has been a return to the system whereby heads give their rankings in advance of the 11+, so panels will see how well schools know their pupils and whether they are overestimating.
2. SATs. There is no direct correlation between SATs and the 11+. Three 5s would probably be regarded as encouraging but inconclusive. They are predictions, so again there could be an element of overestimating. They measure other qualities.
3. Schoolwork. Carefully selected pieces of work, printed off from a computer, might be viewed with a degree of caution! Who is to know under what circumstances the work was done and how much help was given? Exercise books showing routine classwork are likely to be more informative.
4. Other test results and educational psychologist reports. These are not strictly comparable with the 11+ either because they are standardised differently or because they are done under very different circumstances.
So what makes for a really good appeal? Firstly, as many of the following academic indicators as possible:
1. Two respectable 11+ scores (e.g. 119 and 118 carry more weight than 119 and 108)
2. A headteacher whose predictions are realistic and who does not write exactly the same thing for every single appeal. His/her words will be scrutinised to see whether there is some sort of reference to “very high academic ability”, and any indication of something exceptional about the case.
3. Encouraging SATs predictions
4. High standardised test scores from school (say, 126+)
5. Good routine academic work, in the child’s own handwriting, that has not been specially selected.
Secondly, strong extenuating circumstances clearly linked to the time of the tests, with strong supporting evidence.
A few suggested Do’s and Don’t’s:
1 Parents sometimes think that the more they write, and the more they say, the stronger their appeal. I would suggest that the best appeals can be presented on one side of A4, plus supporting evidence. The more succinct you are, the clearer your key points will be.
2 Don’t spend time saying how wonderful your child is at extracurricular activities unless the panel ask you a specific question. Extracurricular activites may be mentioned in the appeals booklet, but are very unlikely to influence a panel’s decision.
3 Similarly letters of commendation from relatives, neighbours, club secretaries, and sports coaches are unlikely to influence a panel.
4 “My child hasn’t been coached” rarely makes much of an impact. Panels are aware of NFER’s contention that their familiarisation papers and practice provide “saturation” preparation.
5 Don’t spend time saying how wonderful grammar schools are. It’s a mistake to think that panel members are all committed to the 11+. Some are strongly opposed but are doing their best to make the system work and to give parents the opportunity of an appeal without recourse to judicial review. Whether a panel member believes in selection or not has no bearing on the result of an appeal, and I would discourage parents from giving their own views about the system at a hearing.
6 Do submit all your evidence in advance, or if that is not possible bring it on the day. It doesn't help to say "If you'd like a letter from my doctor I'm sure he'll write one"!
As to whether some pupils are inappropriately placed, it is not really the task of an appeals panel to decide which school would be best (although I’m sure panel members would hope that what they do is ultimately in the child’s best interests). Strictly speaking the task of a panel is to decide whether the evidence is sufficiently compelling to overturn the LEA’s decision.
I hope these comments may be of some help.
Appeals
As requested, I've just posted above some general comments on appeals.
Perhaps I can add that panels consist of three (fallible!) human beings,at least one of whom must have a background in education, and at least one of whom must be a lay member.
My experience of panel members over many years was that almost without exception they are very dedicated volunteers, trying their best to do an extremely demanding job. They understand how much their decisions are going to affect families.
It's a very stressful time for those of you going to appeal, but rest assured that panel members will not intentionally seek to do anything to add to your stress. They have to assess the evidence rigorously, but they will try to put you at your ease, so that you can present your case properly. When it's all over, whatever the outcome, I hope you will feel that you have been treated considerately and given a fair hearing.
Perhaps I can add that panels consist of three (fallible!) human beings,at least one of whom must have a background in education, and at least one of whom must be a lay member.
My experience of panel members over many years was that almost without exception they are very dedicated volunteers, trying their best to do an extremely demanding job. They understand how much their decisions are going to affect families.
It's a very stressful time for those of you going to appeal, but rest assured that panel members will not intentionally seek to do anything to add to your stress. They have to assess the evidence rigorously, but they will try to put you at your ease, so that you can present your case properly. When it's all over, whatever the outcome, I hope you will feel that you have been treated considerately and given a fair hearing.
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Samantha
I am assuming that the last two posts are by the same author.
Etienne thank you for the view from the other side of the table, I can see why my son's appeal was rejected three years ago - at the time I was too embroiled in getting my son in at all costs and had less than kind things to say about the panel. I have a daughter to prepare for next year.
I think that every appealing parent should read these postings before forging ahead.
P.S. Patricia thank you for all your focused postings and advice all over this website; even though I have been through the 11 plus before reading your common sense Bucks specific advice has been valuable for me.
Etienne thank you for the view from the other side of the table, I can see why my son's appeal was rejected three years ago - at the time I was too embroiled in getting my son in at all costs and had less than kind things to say about the panel. I have a daughter to prepare for next year.
I think that every appealing parent should read these postings before forging ahead.
P.S. Patricia thank you for all your focused postings and advice all over this website; even though I have been through the 11 plus before reading your common sense Bucks specific advice has been valuable for me.
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Guest
Hi Etienne, Patricia,
Post subject: Oversubscription
If my daughter who has passed the 11+ for her chosen school, fails to get a place in March due to oversubscription,(we are out of catchment) would we stand a good chance of gaining a place if we appealed??
This would mean that the school would need to increase its mal*?? How often does this occur??
Any help would be appreciated.
Footymad
Post subject: Oversubscription
If my daughter who has passed the 11+ for her chosen school, fails to get a place in March due to oversubscription,(we are out of catchment) would we stand a good chance of gaining a place if we appealed??
This would mean that the school would need to increase its mal*?? How often does this occur??
Any help would be appreciated.
Footymad
Dear Footymad
Think I will leave Etienne to reply to that, she is obviously well informed on the matter of appeals.
However, If I remember rightly you are not from Bucks, your area may be slightly different, get onto your LEA and start asking questions, always get the name of the person you speak to and make a diary of any conversations.
Patricia
Think I will leave Etienne to reply to that, she is obviously well informed on the matter of appeals.
However, If I remember rightly you are not from Bucks, your area may be slightly different, get onto your LEA and start asking questions, always get the name of the person you speak to and make a diary of any conversations.
Patricia
Appeals
Thank you, Samantha – and good luck for next year!
Regarding Footymad’s question about a “transfer appeal”, she has every right to appeal for a Bucks school but the outcome will depend entirely on the strength of her case relative to the strength of the school’s case.
First of all the panel will have to be satisfied that the school is full, and, if so, how prejudicial the admission of an extra pupil will be. Some schools, although technically full, might cope with an extra pupil without too much difficulty. Other schools might struggle.
Secondly, the panel will want to know your reasons for the school in question, and why no other school would really do. Reasons will probably include one or more of the following:
1 It’s the catchment school.
2 Although not in catchment you live very close to the school.
3 Getting to any alternative (grammar) school would be logistically difficult (you would have to prove this, and I think the degree of inconvenience would have to be very considerable indeed).
4 There is a sibling already there.
5 Other family members are attending or have attended the school (perhaps not a strong point but worth a mention).
6 There are strong educational reasons (I don’t mean a preference for grammar school education in general - I mean something specific on offer at this particular school which is not available at alternative grammar schools. You would need to prove why this is so crucial).
7 There are strong medical or social reasons why your child needs to attend this particular school. These are often the most compelling reasons, but you will need proof, and you will need to demonstrate convincingly why only this school is the solution.
If the panel accepts that the school is full, it moves on to what is called the “balancing stage”. It weighs up the problem that the admission of an extra child would cause the school, and compares that with the prejudice that would be caused to the child if not admitted. The side with the stronger case wins. You could have a strong case but lose the appeal because the panel decides the school case is even stronger! You could have a weak case but win your appeal because the school case is even weaker!
Another factor that might influence the result is the number of appeals being heard at the same time. If you are appealing for a very popular school, there could be 20, 30 or even 40+ cases to be heard. In this situation, the panel put all the cases in what they judge to be the order of merit, and starting with the strongest they work their way down the list asking the question: where does the greater prejudice lie? If they think the prejudice to the child would be greater than the prejudice to the school, then a place is offered. (Each time they admit an extra pupil, of course, the prejudice to the school has probably become greater, and they will be conscious of this as they move on to consider the next case.)
If you think you have a good case, then it’s well worth a try because transfer appeals are so unpredictable. About a third of appeals succeed, but as I’ve suggested above a lot will depend on the strength of the school’s case.
Regarding Footymad’s question about a “transfer appeal”, she has every right to appeal for a Bucks school but the outcome will depend entirely on the strength of her case relative to the strength of the school’s case.
First of all the panel will have to be satisfied that the school is full, and, if so, how prejudicial the admission of an extra pupil will be. Some schools, although technically full, might cope with an extra pupil without too much difficulty. Other schools might struggle.
Secondly, the panel will want to know your reasons for the school in question, and why no other school would really do. Reasons will probably include one or more of the following:
1 It’s the catchment school.
2 Although not in catchment you live very close to the school.
3 Getting to any alternative (grammar) school would be logistically difficult (you would have to prove this, and I think the degree of inconvenience would have to be very considerable indeed).
4 There is a sibling already there.
5 Other family members are attending or have attended the school (perhaps not a strong point but worth a mention).
6 There are strong educational reasons (I don’t mean a preference for grammar school education in general - I mean something specific on offer at this particular school which is not available at alternative grammar schools. You would need to prove why this is so crucial).
7 There are strong medical or social reasons why your child needs to attend this particular school. These are often the most compelling reasons, but you will need proof, and you will need to demonstrate convincingly why only this school is the solution.
If the panel accepts that the school is full, it moves on to what is called the “balancing stage”. It weighs up the problem that the admission of an extra child would cause the school, and compares that with the prejudice that would be caused to the child if not admitted. The side with the stronger case wins. You could have a strong case but lose the appeal because the panel decides the school case is even stronger! You could have a weak case but win your appeal because the school case is even weaker!
Another factor that might influence the result is the number of appeals being heard at the same time. If you are appealing for a very popular school, there could be 20, 30 or even 40+ cases to be heard. In this situation, the panel put all the cases in what they judge to be the order of merit, and starting with the strongest they work their way down the list asking the question: where does the greater prejudice lie? If they think the prejudice to the child would be greater than the prejudice to the school, then a place is offered. (Each time they admit an extra pupil, of course, the prejudice to the school has probably become greater, and they will be conscious of this as they move on to consider the next case.)
If you think you have a good case, then it’s well worth a try because transfer appeals are so unpredictable. About a third of appeals succeed, but as I’ve suggested above a lot will depend on the strength of the school’s case.
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Bucks Appealer
Appeals
Hello Bucks Appealer
Glad to have been of some help.
Yes, an appeals panel will normally get a copy of your preferences.
It will not know the outcome of an 11+ in another authority, but it's just possible it might ask you.
(Worth mentioning that it's difficult to make comparisons between different authorities' 11+ tests, because some include non-verbal reasoning, some do not, and the standardisation is not exactly the same.)
Good luck
Glad to have been of some help.
Yes, an appeals panel will normally get a copy of your preferences.
It will not know the outcome of an 11+ in another authority, but it's just possible it might ask you.
(Worth mentioning that it's difficult to make comparisons between different authorities' 11+ tests, because some include non-verbal reasoning, some do not, and the standardisation is not exactly the same.)
Good luck
