Grammar School Appeal

Guest55 · Post by **Guest55** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:33 pm

I am a teacher - have helped many people with appeals - all successful except that for own child {!} but child sailed through 12+ and now happily settled in Y8.

Good luck

kentmum1 · Post by **kentmum1** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:32 pm

I know there has to be a method, but these sats level comparisons seem so unfair for appeals. My son also achieved a 2A, for maths, at the end of KS1 and, I think, a 4C at the end of Y5, (although 5's for english) and yet he passed his 11+, with a good score. If one was to examine all the Y5 sats levels achieved by those who passed, there would be many variations! Again, these are just one day tests and children can come on so much between sats and 11+ tests. Can you provide some good, solid workbooks that he has completed during the term before the 11+? These must surely count as better evidence of his general ability. I wish you all the best, during what must be a nerve-wracking ordeal!

Guest55 · Post by **Guest55** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:44 pm

Kentmum1,

Yes I know NC test levels don't tell the whole story and that many children get to Grammar school without 3 level 5s! [Personal experience of teaching in a Grammar school so know the variety!!]

However, when appealing on non-qualification KS2 predicted level 5s are one of the things a panel expect to see ...

Post by **Etienne** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:23 pm

Dear Worried Mum

I think Guest55 has given you very good advice above.

I agree that it's best to submit a report in full. My reaction to a partial report would be a suspicious "Why is the full report not available? What is being concealed?"

Don't worry about comments such as "chatterbox". The focus should be on ability. For the same reason I would discourage you from going into your son's good character, lest it dilute your case.

With regard to late evidence, see the Q&As, B13.

Worth mentioning the top maths set, but this will carry more weight if you can show that the school has performed well at KS2. (Ask if you don't know where to find the previous figures for your LA.)

Tell the panel about the school's lack of co-operation (if this continues to be the case), but do so in a concise and factual manner. The panel will know that this sort of situation arises from time to time, and will probably be sympathetic, especially if you are seen to be restrained (as opposed to launching into an all-out attack - which I am sure you are too reasonable to do!

)

Good luck

Worried Mum · Post by **Worried Mum** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:26 pm

[quote="kentmum1"]I know there has to be a method, but these sats level comparisons seem so unfair for appeals. My son also achieved a 2A, for maths, at the end of KS1 and, I think, a 4C at the end of Y5, (although 5's for english) and yet he passed his 11+, with a good score. If one was to examine all the Y5 sats levels achieved by those who passed, there would be many variations! Again, these are just one day tests and children can come on so much between sats and 11+ tests. Can you provide some good, solid workbooks that he has completed during the term before the 11+? These must surely count as better evidence of his general ability. I wish you all the best, during what must be a nerve-wracking ordeal![/quote]

Thanks for that Kent Mum, when I approached his teacher with regard to going for appeal, he quite rightly said, that although my son is bright and has no trouble learning, remembering and contributing to lessons, his recordings in his workbooks do not reflect his ability as he generally rushes through this part to get it done! He also thinks that he may struggle with the commitment expected of him at a grammar school - pity I wasn't told this when I got his advice in putting him in for it in the first place, when I was given his position in the year group and that he would definitely stand a good chance of passing. Another couple of questions right in the 11+ and nobody would be questioning it!!
Anyway, I can't do any more, but just go along and be honest with what I think and believe - that he's a normal, intelligent lad who needs the opportunity (and a good kick up the backside) to show his potential. There are some excellent comments in his school report with regard to his numeracy amongst other subjects, hopefully these will carry some weight, but I'm not too optimistic.

kentmum1 · Post by **kentmum1** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:30 pm

Yes, I certainly do know that! It's just a personal view that's all. However, as this is an appeal for academic ability, I agree that one should have expected level 5's at the end of Y6. This must be stronger evidence than the KS1 sats - although, of course, I appreciate that these can still be used as good indicators. Unfortunately, these sats levels can also be iaffected by poor teaching. First son had an excellent Y2 teacher and achieved good sats. However second son had a poorer standard of teaching, and hardly anyone achieved 3's. Thankfully, the staffing has been sorted!

kentmum1 · Post by **kentmum1** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:41 pm

Sorry, the previous answer was to Guest 55 - there has been some further submissions whilst writing! Worried Mum - your son sounds a v normal intelligent boy. I remember also having comments such as "tends to write the bare minimum!" However, did seem to come on a lot in the last year but then he is one of the eldest.

Sally-Anne · Post by **Sally-Anne** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:56 pm

Hi WM/KM1 and Etienne - back from holiday? It's been a while!

I agree that it's best to submit a report in full. My reaction to a partial report would be a suspicious "Why is the full report not available? What is being concealed?"

The only disagreement I have with that recommendation is that, depending on the school, reports can be very lengthy! Ours run to 20 pages or more, and I really didn't feel that my son's "variable performance in PHSE, so I have marked him as A-/D+ overall" (!) or his "distinct improvement in backstroke" were going to be very relevant to our appeal.

Rather than have the panel overlook the core subjects and focus on some pointless remarks in far less important subjects, we chose to submit copies of English, Maths, Science, History and Geography reports only.

(I will add that our Appeal failed, but I am certain it was for lots of other reasons, not the fact that we left out all the excess report pages!)

Sally-Anne

Worried Mum · Post by **Worried Mum** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:46 pm

[quote="Sally-Anne"]Hi WM/KM1 and Etienne - back from holiday? It's been a while!

[quote]I agree that it's best to submit a report in full. My reaction to a partial report would be a suspicious "Why is the full report not available? What is being concealed?" [/quote]

The only disagreement I have with that recommendation is that, depending on the school, reports can be very lengthy! Ours run to 20 pages or more, and I really didn't feel that my son's "variable performance in PHSE, so I have marked him as A-/D+ overall" (!) or his "distinct improvement in backstroke" were going to be very relevant to our appeal.

Rather than have the panel overlook the core subjects and focus on some pointless remarks in far less important subjects, we chose to submit copies of English, Maths, Science, History and Geography reports only.

(I will add that our Appeal failed, but I am certain it was for lots of other reasons, not the fact that we left out all the excess report pages!)

Sally-Anne[/quote]

Hi Sally-Anne,
Fortunately our reports are only 4/5 pages long, so I'll probably submit the whole thing as there are some really encouraging comments for other subjects as well as the core. At the end of the day I'm a great believer in what will be, will be....
I'm sure my lad will do fine at secondary school and we've been reassured that he will be in the top stream, if we go for the appeal and it doesn't work out, we know we've done all we can for him, he doesn't know about it either so he won't have to go through the disappointment again. Thanks for your help.

Worried Mum · Post by **Worried Mum** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:51 pm

[quote="kentmum1"]Sorry, the previous answer was to Guest 55 - there has been some further submissions whilst writing! Worried Mum - your son sounds a v normal intelligent boy. I remember also having comments such as "tends to write the bare minimum!" However, did seem to come on a lot in the last year but then he is one of the eldest.[/quote]
We're just addressing his written work now, or rather his laziness for it, the school are now interested now that SAT's are coming up!! Hopefully it will improve in time, he's one of the younger ones.