somber
Moderators: Section Moderators, Forum Moderators
Re: somber
Thanks, Somber.
The line in the decision letter stating "He would be better placed in a school with pupils he knows" might or might not be a recognition that someone more or less equivalent to a sibling (even if not officially counted as such) is already at the school. It's not at all clear. Do you think "He would be better placed in a school with pupils he knows" is a fair reflection of the point you were trying to make? (It sounds a bit like "It would be reassuring to have some friends or familiar faces at a new school". Weren't you trying to make a stronger point about the bond between your son and your partner's children?)
When you write "at this time I believed that sibling was blood related", is this what you were thinking at the time, or were these the words you spoke?
Did anyone at the hearing - apart from you - know that your family and your partner's family have separate houses? Did anyone ask?
It's really quite difficult to work out whether the panel fully understood your circumstances (when you didn't want to push the 'sibling' point), and if they did, then - crucially - whether they took them fully into account.
Looking at the whole paragraph "I explained that ...... under the sibling rule" - instead of using indirect speech ("I explained that ......, I gave them an outline about ......, I believed that .....") could you possibly write down for me the actual words you spoke, as far as you can remember?
The line in the decision letter stating "He would be better placed in a school with pupils he knows" might or might not be a recognition that someone more or less equivalent to a sibling (even if not officially counted as such) is already at the school. It's not at all clear. Do you think "He would be better placed in a school with pupils he knows" is a fair reflection of the point you were trying to make? (It sounds a bit like "It would be reassuring to have some friends or familiar faces at a new school". Weren't you trying to make a stronger point about the bond between your son and your partner's children?)
When you write "at this time I believed that sibling was blood related", is this what you were thinking at the time, or were these the words you spoke?
Did anyone at the hearing - apart from you - know that your family and your partner's family have separate houses? Did anyone ask?
It's really quite difficult to work out whether the panel fully understood your circumstances (when you didn't want to push the 'sibling' point), and if they did, then - crucially - whether they took them fully into account.
Looking at the whole paragraph "I explained that ...... under the sibling rule" - instead of using indirect speech ("I explained that ......, I gave them an outline about ......, I believed that .....") could you possibly write down for me the actual words you spoke, as far as you can remember?
Etienne
Re: somber
Hi Etienne
I do think he would be better at the school with his friends. I was trying to get across the bond between my son and my partners son but I did not push the sibling as I thought a sibling had to be blood related.
Ref: Sibling this is what I was thinking, I had never had anyone tell me otherwise.
Separate houses was never mentioned and no one asked When I told the panel about my sons friends I pointed out that my partners sons is at the school, It was also mentioned again when I was asked how my son would travel to school I told them it would be a car share or he would travel by bus with my partners son.
I told the panel I believe my son will benefit very much from the stability that (the school) can offer, along with already having several friends at the school in years 7, 8 and 9 and I during questions I told the panel that one of the children is my partner of five years son. They did not say anything more about it.
Regards
Somber
I do think he would be better at the school with his friends. I was trying to get across the bond between my son and my partners son but I did not push the sibling as I thought a sibling had to be blood related.
Ref: Sibling this is what I was thinking, I had never had anyone tell me otherwise.
Separate houses was never mentioned and no one asked When I told the panel about my sons friends I pointed out that my partners sons is at the school, It was also mentioned again when I was asked how my son would travel to school I told them it would be a car share or he would travel by bus with my partners son.
I told the panel I believe my son will benefit very much from the stability that (the school) can offer, along with already having several friends at the school in years 7, 8 and 9 and I during questions I told the panel that one of the children is my partner of five years son. They did not say anything more about it.
Regards
Somber
Re: somber
I think it might be worth seeing what the ombudsman thinks, but I wouldn't want to get your hopes up as there may be only an outside chance of success.
It depends to some extent what is in the clerk's notes. (That is the only evidence of who said what at the hearing - and the notes may or may not be complete.) Although there is no mention of the bond with your partner's son in the decision letter, it's possible that the notes will show that the panel did in fact take this into account when arriving at their decision.
You could try and get hold of a copy of the clerk's notes
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/ombudsman#d4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and then decide what to do.
Or you can take the matter up with the ombudsman straight away, and let an investigator look into it for you, in which case I'll advise you what to say.
What would you like to do?
It depends to some extent what is in the clerk's notes. (That is the only evidence of who said what at the hearing - and the notes may or may not be complete.) Although there is no mention of the bond with your partner's son in the decision letter, it's possible that the notes will show that the panel did in fact take this into account when arriving at their decision.
You could try and get hold of a copy of the clerk's notes
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/ombudsman#d4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and then decide what to do.
Or you can take the matter up with the ombudsman straight away, and let an investigator look into it for you, in which case I'll advise you what to say.
What would you like to do?
Etienne
Re: somber
Hi Etienne
I think i will go straight to the ombudsman
Regards
Somber
I think i will go straight to the ombudsman
Regards
Somber
Re: somber
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/ombudsman#d3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- scroll down to D3 (ix) (a)
What do you think the council or authority did wrong?
I will draft something and send it to you (probably tomorrow).
- scroll down to D3 (ix) (a)
What do you think the council or authority did wrong?
I will draft something and send it to you (probably tomorrow).
Etienne
Re: somber
Hi Etienne
I have sent all info to my local ombudsman, and it has now been sent to london I have a case number and I have been told a request has been made for all of the appeal notes and documents. he will then tell me if i have a case?
Regards
Somber
I have sent all info to my local ombudsman, and it has now been sent to london I have a case number and I have been told a request has been made for all of the appeal notes and documents. he will then tell me if i have a case?
Regards
Somber
Re: somber
That sounds correct.somber wrote:........ I have a case number and I have been told a request has been made for all of the appeal notes and documents. he will then tell me if i have a case?
As I indicated before, I think it all depends on what the clerk's notes show.
Whatever the outcome, at least you will know that someone completely independent has scrutinised the process.
Etienne
Ombudsman
Hi Etienne, Well They have just got back to me saying that as all the procedure's in his opinion have been followed he is recomending the case be shut? the notes he has sent me have no ref to the sibling or of my brother living 600m from the school.
I can send you the e-mail?
Somber
Hi Somber, I have merged your new post into the previous thread so the whole story can be seen in one place - Herman
I can send you the e-mail?
Somber
Hi Somber, I have merged your new post into the previous thread so the whole story can be seen in one place - Herman
Re: somber
Hi Sombre,
I am sorry to hear your news.
I would like to offer you some thoughts regarding your family (sibling) situation that may, or may not, help your case. Understanding the sibling rule (generally) for Kent I can see why the officials do not deem your son to be a sibling of a child (your partner's son) already at the school. It's not fair, given your circumstances, but, unfortunately for you, understandable. You do, by appearances, seem to be two families - not one. What evidence, other than house sharing (from one house to the other) do you have to support a claim of 'living together as siblings under the same roof'. How are your finances set up? Are you a couple / family 'financially' that would support a claim to be 'one family'? I do not wish to make assumptions, but maybe the panel did? Can you offer further evidence to support a claim of being one family? Finances, to me, seems the most obvious, as there may (or may not) be single parent allowances, tax credits etc. that could be taken into account and used as evidence to say you, your partner and all the children are one family unit, not two. There are also other forms of evidence that could help too.
I think the panel / ombudsman are following the letter of the law, as they see it, and you may need to look deeper at further evidence to prove to the ombudsman / school that you are one family - not two. Do they have all the best evidence in front of them? Have they made incorrect assumptions about your family set-up? I think your family unit's financial set-up would be the best evidence to support your claim.
Your brother's support, again, whilst understandable, is not going to be sufficient grounds (IMO). Thousands of (single) parents in Kent have childcare issues and would love a school near aunts, uncles etc. It's impossible to 'offer' places on those grounds alone.
I know it seems very unfair and I very much hope that you have success and gain a place from the waiting list.
Best wishes.
Edited to add: Also consider 'single parent' and 'uncle childcare' evidence and how this may be seen to contrast with and contradict with the evidence of being 'one family'. What arrangements is there for his big brother? Whose 'home' do each of the children go to after school? These sorts of questions are the ones the panel and ombudsman may have considered - or may not, in which case you may have a case to further your arument and evidence to support your appeal.
I am sorry to hear your news.
I would like to offer you some thoughts regarding your family (sibling) situation that may, or may not, help your case. Understanding the sibling rule (generally) for Kent I can see why the officials do not deem your son to be a sibling of a child (your partner's son) already at the school. It's not fair, given your circumstances, but, unfortunately for you, understandable. You do, by appearances, seem to be two families - not one. What evidence, other than house sharing (from one house to the other) do you have to support a claim of 'living together as siblings under the same roof'. How are your finances set up? Are you a couple / family 'financially' that would support a claim to be 'one family'? I do not wish to make assumptions, but maybe the panel did? Can you offer further evidence to support a claim of being one family? Finances, to me, seems the most obvious, as there may (or may not) be single parent allowances, tax credits etc. that could be taken into account and used as evidence to say you, your partner and all the children are one family unit, not two. There are also other forms of evidence that could help too.
I think the panel / ombudsman are following the letter of the law, as they see it, and you may need to look deeper at further evidence to prove to the ombudsman / school that you are one family - not two. Do they have all the best evidence in front of them? Have they made incorrect assumptions about your family set-up? I think your family unit's financial set-up would be the best evidence to support your claim.
Your brother's support, again, whilst understandable, is not going to be sufficient grounds (IMO). Thousands of (single) parents in Kent have childcare issues and would love a school near aunts, uncles etc. It's impossible to 'offer' places on those grounds alone.
I know it seems very unfair and I very much hope that you have success and gain a place from the waiting list.
Best wishes.
Edited to add: Also consider 'single parent' and 'uncle childcare' evidence and how this may be seen to contrast with and contradict with the evidence of being 'one family'. What arrangements is there for his big brother? Whose 'home' do each of the children go to after school? These sorts of questions are the ones the panel and ombudsman may have considered - or may not, in which case you may have a case to further your arument and evidence to support your appeal.