Tutored?

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Sally-Anne
Posts: 9235
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
Location: Buckinghamshire

Post by Sally-Anne »

Agreed, on all counts Etienne.

Best wishes
Sally-Anne
SPUD
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:56 pm
Location: Wirral

Post by SPUD »

Hi Capers

I really thank you for your honesty, and think you have a valid point.

I was asked the 'tutor' question at my appeal. I answered honestly - my son had not been tutored. Difficult to prove one way or the other, but I think its worth the appeal panel asking.
Sue
Sayed
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:42 am
Location: Tamworth

Post by Sayed »

capers123, this is only the tip of the iceberg.
It doesn't just happen in 11+, unfortunately this issue re-occurs right up to university application. When I applied to KE independent school in Edgbaston, I missed out by a few points yet family friends with sons the same age as me had their children attending fee-paying feeder schools and heavily coached by tutors for the 11+. Funny though as up to this day, I have still achieved better going to a bog-standard comprehensive than my privately educated counter-parts.
capers123
Posts: 1865
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 9:03 pm
Location: Gloucestershire

Post by capers123 »

Sayed wrote:capers123, this is only the tip of the iceberg.
Funny though as up to this day, I have still achieved better going to a bog-standard comprehensive than my privately educated counter-parts.
Quod erat demonstrandum! For what it's worth I've got experience of both systems, as my mixed grammar school in Surrey merged with the girls comprehensive next door to me at the beginning of year 4. It continues to be a good school 25 years on.

Here in Gloucestershire things are changing for next year - the 11+ will still be in November, but the results will be sent out 2 weeks later, and before the school preference form. You still won't know if you've got a place at the grammar, or your score, but you will know if you've passed or not. It then allows you to put a good comprehensive as your first choice should you decide to go that way. Also schools will no longer be able to say 'we'll only consider you if you put us first' - we had people putting grammars second because they wanted a good comp if they didn't get the grammar, then passing, but not being offered a place as they hadn't got it as first choice (so having to appeal - but with a very good score).

Capers
Capers
Guest

Post by Guest »

In Bucks, where the 11+ consists solely of Verbal Reasoning, set by nfer, the official line from nfer is that the familiarisation and practice tests are all that is needed to prepare a child for 11+, and that further coaching/practice can have only marginal benefit.

I understood that given this statement, panels were supposed to ignore parents' claims of 'my child has not been tutored', since tutoring is not supposed to have any effect. A friend whose son missed by 1 mark, and did not get through on appeal, is concerned that her offering the information (to a Bucks panel) that her son was tutored will have damaged his appeal. Since panels are supposed to ignore claims that a child has not been tutored, presumably they should also ignore admissions that a child has? I'd be very interested to hear Etienne's take on this one. (I believe you are Bucks, Etienne?)
Sally-Anne
Posts: 9235
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
Location: Buckinghamshire

Post by Sally-Anne »

Hi Guest

Etienne isn't around right now, so I'll bridge the gap until she is back.

Yes, a panel should also ignore any statement that a child has been tutored.

Depending on the individual panel members, they could perhaps have been influenced by your friend's statement - panel members are only human after all, and an inexperienced panel member may have made a small judgement because of it. If the appeal fails your friend should get a copy of the clerk's notes. If the notes show that her statement clearly influenced the panel in turning the appeal down then I believe that she would probably have a case to take to the Ombudsman.

It is more likely that if a panel member raised it during the decision-making process after the hearing, the Chairman of the panel will have over-ruled the point.

Etienne will undoubtely confirm or deny all of that shortly!

On the bright side, panel members are not stupid. They know that coaching is rife in Bucks and I think they are quite practised in discounting tutoring when making their judgements. I would imagine the information was received with an inaudible sigh and promptly ignored!

Sally-Anne
capers123
Posts: 1865
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 9:03 pm
Location: Gloucestershire

Post by capers123 »

Sally-Anne wrote:Hi Guest

Yes, a panel should also ignore any statement that a child has been tutored.

Sally-Anne
Looking through School Admission Appeal Code of Practice 02/2003 - I can find no mention of thsi. I'll try & dig out some guidelines to see if it's there.
Capers
Sally-Anne
Posts: 9235
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
Location: Buckinghamshire

Post by Sally-Anne »

Hi Capers

It may not be in the guidelines, but I recall Etienne posting before that panel members in Bucks are told to discount all mention of tutoring. However, the post was a very long time ago, and I can't find it!

Let us know what you do find.

Sally-Anne
_____________
Biting fingernails for 12+
Is that other world any nicer?
capers123
Posts: 1865
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 9:03 pm
Location: Gloucestershire

Post by capers123 »

Ah. 'My' school is a foundation school or the like, and only applies national guidelines.

Capers
Capers
Bronco

Tutoring

Post by Bronco »

I find CAPERS123 comments on tutoring a little naive.

Living in Gloucestshire and going through the appeal system for a
Community Grammar in Gloucester on Wednesday of this week, I can assure you that whether you had your child tutored or not did not make one jot of difference.

In fact if I was going to appeal and heard that those sort of rules were being applied I would be looking carefully at discrimination laws.

Life is full of tests most of which we get tutored for, CATS/SATS, driving test etc. The 11+ is no different.

I too have heard the play ground stories from parents telling you that Johnny did not have any tutoring. When in fact the child has admitted quite the opposite to friends.

Appeal panels need to accept that is now a fact of life that the majority of children, if not all, have tutoring. That is certainly my experience having had one child go through it two years ago and the other one more recently.

I will make a generalisation here and stick my neck out, but most parents will do pretty much anything to get their child into a good school,
and why not!

But the notion that a parent comes to an appeal and tells you that their child has had no or little tutoring, frankly, in most cases in probably well wide of the mark!
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