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 Post subject: Re: Should I appeal?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7501
Similar sort of question here:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... school#c31

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 Post subject: Re: Should I appeal?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:14 pm
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Thank you :D

Now to decide if I can cope with the stress of an appeal :|

I have a feeling I will be back...

Many thanks again.

Pickle.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I appeal?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:27 am 
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I have just sent an email to the appeals box but I forgot to put my username as the subject :oops: should I resend?


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 Post subject: Re: Should I appeal?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:37 pm 
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I've resent it but not sure I've gone about this the correct way :?

My general questions are:-

Could I argue the local review wasn't FCO if there was no mention of being denied a full hearing infront of an independent panel on the local review form the school sent (without it being requested)?

How do I go about questioning the accuracy of the invigilators report?

Are there any official guidelines on exam conditions for tests like these?

Thanks,

Pickle.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I appeal?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
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Not sure where FCO comes from, but I'm getting rather tired of writing out 'fair, consistent & objective', so I like it! :)
Makes a change from Foreign & Commonwealth Office, anyway.
I've added it to our list of abbreviations:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/abbreviations

Quote:
Could I argue the local review wasn't FCO if there was no mention of being denied a full hearing in front of an independent panel on the local review form the school sent (without it being requested)?
Possibly. You need to check very carefully all the information you received (the LA's guide regarding transfer to secondary school, any guide to the 11+/appeals, and the school prospectus) to make sure you didn't overlook anything.
If you're not sure, just ask questions at the hearing. "Could you tell me, please, where it was made clear that going through a review could severely limit my chances of a full hearing of my case at any subsequent appeal?"

Other possible questions. (Purely illustrative, of course. It's impossible to know how the school would respond to any given question.)
Quote:
Parent: Did the review panel take full account of the alternative academic evidence?"

School: Yes, of course

Parent: Could you explain what objective criterion was used for determining sufficient or insufficient evidence of grammar school standard?
And how would the panel have coped objectively with different types of evidence (one child might have had SATs, but another child at an independent school might have had CATs instead, and a third child might have come from abroad, having done neither SATs or CATs).

School: That would have been a matter for the professional judgement of the panel.

Parent: So there was no objective criterion? These were essentially subjective judgements?
What about consistency? What objective criterion was applied to ensure consistency in the panel's decisions?

School: That's a difficult question.

Parent: It's one thing to set up a review process, and I'm sure the panel did its best, and that decisions were taken in good faith - but, with respect, I submit that there is no evidence that the process was applied fairly, consistently and objectively in each case.


Quote:
How do I go about questioning the accuracy of the invigilators report?
You wrote earlier on: "It also says that the invigilator's reports do not correlate with the assertions made in my local review letter and that the invigilators are not allowed to deviate from the scripts given. How can this be??? I have learned since the exam that other parents/children had the same complaints as us and it feels they haven't taken this into consideration at all."
You ought to put these points at the hearing. If there were numerous complaints, doesn't it suggest something was not right? How was the matter investigated? (Did it go beyond a quick glance at the invigilator's report?)

Quote:
Are there any official guidelines on exam conditions for tests like these?
Write and ask for a copy of the guidelines.
Ask too for a copy of the invigilator's report (with names of pupils removed).
(If the school doesn't respond, take a copy of your letter to the hearing, and tell the panel that the school failed in its duty to provide reasonable information which you needed to help prepare for the appeal. The Appeals Code states: "2.8 Admission authorities must comply with reasonable requests from parents for information which they need to help them prepare their case for appeal."


As far as academic evidence is concerned, I think you need to stress that there is significant new evidence of rapid progress that was not available at the time of the review.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I appeal?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:50 pm 
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Thank you so much. All of this advice is invaluable.

I'm going to digest this and start working on reasons for wanting a place (I have none, other than catchment).

P.s. I'm afraid I can't take the credit for FCO, I've seen it on here somewhere :D


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 Post subject: Re: Should I appeal?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:24 am 
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Posts: 52
Hello again,

I have a few more questions....

I feel that the school my child has been allocated is the wrong one for him. I have lots of reasons for this e.g. Ofsted report being 'good' as opposed to the 'outstanding' school we are appealing for and my main concerns with the school allocated is that the 'progress of middle and higher ability students, especially in English and Maths was below average' (largely due to slower progress) and the improvement they need to make is to carefully match work to students' abilities and provide sufficient challenge, as teachers haven't done this, slowing down progress for middle and higher attaining boys. Also, 'fewer boys entering the school have high prior attainment than in most secondary schools'. As a parent of a child sitting level 6 SATS, this concerns me.

Can a reason for not wanting to attend the school allocated be a reason for wanting to attend the school appealed for? I hope you see what I'm getting at here. Not sure I'm explaining myself very well. I'm worried that they don't cater for high attaining children.

Many thanks again.

Pickle.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I appeal?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:13 am 
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I've just re-read the oversubscription section and see that I need to keep the focus on reasons for wanting a place at that particular school. In our case, it'll be the English, Maths and Science specialisms that are on offer at the appealed for school, but not at the allocated school (their specialisms are technology and applied learning).

Will there be no mention of the allocated school? If my child were to be disadvantaged by not attending the appealed for school and, subsequently, attending the school where he may not progress, is this none of their concern????


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 Post subject: Re: Should I appeal?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
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Quote:
is this none of their concern????
Their role is to hear your appeal for the particular school you want.

To push the argument to the extreme, if a parent were to focus on the allocated school, it invites the response "So your case is any school but that one?"

From the point of view of the panel, you're not appealing against another school, you're arguing for a place at the school whose appeals they're hearing.

On the whole, panels tend not to like a negative approach - they would much prefer to hear positive points to do with the school being appealed for.

I think you'd get away with slipping in "I'm sorry to say the allocated school is not satisfactory".

If they ask 'Why?', then with a show of great reluctance [you're only making a negative point because you've been asked to do so], you could say "I honestly haven't come here to criticise another school, but it wouldn't be the right school for my son because .........." Then move the conversation quickly back to where the focus needs to be - why the school you're appealing for would be the right school!

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 Post subject: Re: Should I appeal?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:14 pm
Posts: 52
That makes perfect sense, thanks Etienne.

I think I'm a lot clearer about the points I should be making. As I'm more confident when I write than when I talk I'm going to follow your advice (B40) and put a little more into the written case but keep it clear and consice. I really don't plan to write much at all. If I write very little will they think I don't care? It's just if I'm hoping they'll have a full grasp of the case as I prefer not to 'present' it then I can't drown them in waffle! It has to clear.

Also, do I cover FCO in my appeal application? Do I say I will be challenging it and give the reasons why??? This is the part that has me stumped. Also, I haven't had anything back from school yet or the invigilator's report and I'm not sure whether I'm expected to send everything off at the same time. My application has to be in next Friday and the letter asks you to give a brief outline of your reasons for appealing, include dates you can't attend and attach any further relevant information for their consideration. What do you think?

Thanks.

Pickle.


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