Grammar School offer withdrawn
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Re: Grammar School offer withdrawn
Sally, yes your expansion on the sequence of events on the previous page was very clear. If that was the sequence wouldn't the poster be very upset that her appeal for second place had been withdrawn and that her third choice place had also been withdrawn? Or do you think these were both reinstated at the same time either the school or one of the leas realised a mistake had taken place?
It's shoddy treatment as I said before. Is it a strong case though?
It's shoddy treatment as I said before. Is it a strong case though?
Re: Grammar School offer withdrawn
Hi All. Some quick responses - in no particular order!
1. It's not a case of the panel having empathy/giving them sway, it's a matter of showing them the existing law on this particular case. The admissions process broke down leading to an erroneous offer of a place by the LA; the withdrawal of the offer took place long after what has been held in case law to be a reasonable time to withdraw meaning my DD had a legitimate expectation of this place for some days;
2. Re the issue of error: on considering what had prompted the offer we surmised: either an error had been made; during a moderation/spot check of the papers my DD's paper had been moderated; or places had become available. As they do!
On the Monday I phoned the admissions authority and asked: Could this be an error? I was told: No, that just would not happen. That put our minds at test. On the Friday we receive written notice that the offer was bring withdrawn.
3. My DD's ability. We are submitting evidence as to this: SATs this week of course She's on target to get 5a in reading/writing 5b in Maths. Also, she has a piano theory exam in 4 weeks. Then she will start the next grade which is GCSE level. She is 11 years old. We have no doubt she will do well at the school.
4. Mystery: you're right. For a day or so there were no places available at either 2nd or 3rd choice schools. But we now have a place for her again at 3rd choice school but this does not prejudice our appeal.
I think that's it! I'll post this then check to see if I've missed anything....
1. It's not a case of the panel having empathy/giving them sway, it's a matter of showing them the existing law on this particular case. The admissions process broke down leading to an erroneous offer of a place by the LA; the withdrawal of the offer took place long after what has been held in case law to be a reasonable time to withdraw meaning my DD had a legitimate expectation of this place for some days;
2. Re the issue of error: on considering what had prompted the offer we surmised: either an error had been made; during a moderation/spot check of the papers my DD's paper had been moderated; or places had become available. As they do!
On the Monday I phoned the admissions authority and asked: Could this be an error? I was told: No, that just would not happen. That put our minds at test. On the Friday we receive written notice that the offer was bring withdrawn.
3. My DD's ability. We are submitting evidence as to this: SATs this week of course She's on target to get 5a in reading/writing 5b in Maths. Also, she has a piano theory exam in 4 weeks. Then she will start the next grade which is GCSE level. She is 11 years old. We have no doubt she will do well at the school.
4. Mystery: you're right. For a day or so there were no places available at either 2nd or 3rd choice schools. But we now have a place for her again at 3rd choice school but this does not prejudice our appeal.
I think that's it! I'll post this then check to see if I've missed anything....
Re: Grammar School offer withdrawn
PS What's PAN and what's CAF?!
Re: Grammar School offer withdrawn
PAN = Planned Admission Number (the number of places they expect to have for the year)
CAF = Common Application Form (a single form used to make applications for several schools, stating your order of preference)
CAF = Common Application Form (a single form used to make applications for several schools, stating your order of preference)
Re: Grammar School offer withdrawn
I think the child in question DID attain the pass mark but just not high enough to be offered a place- isn't that right Nic?
Just thought relevant to clarify this.
Just thought relevant to clarify this.
Re: Grammar School offer withdrawn
Assuming there's no issue about qualification, there was a similar sort of case on the forum last year:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... 35&t=26305" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(NB: the ACE helpline is no longer available.)
It took a sympathetic appeal panel to resolve the situation.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... 35&t=26305" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(NB: the ACE helpline is no longer available.)
It took a sympathetic appeal panel to resolve the situation.
Etienne
Re: Grammar School offer withdrawn
I think the law is not clear cut, so good luck on swaying the panel.
The only consolation is that I presume you are where you would have been at this point anyhow - appealing for 2nd and 1st place. If your child did not make the cut off because the admission policy is based on score then your argument needs to be a strong academic one, as well as trying to get somewhere with the fact it took someone or other a few days to withdraw the offer.
You can then go to the ombudsman or whatever the up to date route is if your appeal fails - or is there some process you can go through now about the admin error even before the appeal?
If your child did not get a place because she did not pass then you will still need a strong academic argument. The panel are lay people and it is art not science particularly as the law is not clear cut. Yes they might choose to follow the old ombudsman decision quoted here. Is that what you hope makes it clear cut? It certainly helps, but I am not sure it is 100 per cent clear.
The only consolation is that I presume you are where you would have been at this point anyhow - appealing for 2nd and 1st place. If your child did not make the cut off because the admission policy is based on score then your argument needs to be a strong academic one, as well as trying to get somewhere with the fact it took someone or other a few days to withdraw the offer.
You can then go to the ombudsman or whatever the up to date route is if your appeal fails - or is there some process you can go through now about the admin error even before the appeal?
If your child did not get a place because she did not pass then you will still need a strong academic argument. The panel are lay people and it is art not science particularly as the law is not clear cut. Yes they might choose to follow the old ombudsman decision quoted here. Is that what you hope makes it clear cut? It certainly helps, but I am not sure it is 100 per cent clear.
Re: Grammar School offer withdrawn
They have started up a helpline again now, but it only runs Monday to Wednesday mornings 10-1 so is probably even harder to get through to than before!NB: the ACE helpline is no longer available.
0300 0115 142
http://www.ace-ed.org.uk/advice-about-e ... or-parents" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Grammar School offer withdrawn
Ah! Thanks for the update, Alex.
Useful to know that.
Unless one of the parties has a change of heart, though, I can't for the moment see any alternative to an appeal.
Useful to know that.
Unless one of the parties has a change of heart, though, I can't for the moment see any alternative to an appeal.
Etienne
Re: Grammar School offer withdrawn
I agree, Etienne; I don't see anyone backing down before appeal.
nicleah,
I am not saying that the Panel will not have sympathy with what has happened to your daughter, just that it is not cut and dried and you cannot assume that they will have to find in your favour because a mistake has been made.
Therefore, it would better your chances to also give all the reasons why your child should have a place at the school. There is plenty of guidance in the Appeal Q&A on oversubscription appeals, including those for schools which admit on score order, where an element of demonstrating academic ability may be appropriate.
If your daughter scored very far below the cut off for the school this year this may be an issue which will come up at appeal so this evidence may well be helpful.
nicleah,
I think you need to be a little wary of basing your whole appeal on the mistake that has been made. The “existing law”, remember, says that a place offered in error may be withdrawn; ombudsmen’s rulings do not make Case Law as such; and the situation of the Ombudsman’s ruling ( Ombudsman complaint 99/C/1876)was different in that the expectation of the places was given by the school itself.nicleah wrote:
1. It's not a case of the panel having empathy/giving them sway, it's a matter of showing them the existing law on this particular case. The admissions process broke down leading to an erroneous offer of a place by the LA; the withdrawal of the offer took place long after what has been held in case law to be a reasonable time to withdraw meaning my DD had a legitimate expectation of this place for some days;
I am not saying that the Panel will not have sympathy with what has happened to your daughter, just that it is not cut and dried and you cannot assume that they will have to find in your favour because a mistake has been made.
Therefore, it would better your chances to also give all the reasons why your child should have a place at the school. There is plenty of guidance in the Appeal Q&A on oversubscription appeals, including those for schools which admit on score order, where an element of demonstrating academic ability may be appropriate.
3. My DD's ability. We are submitting evidence as to this: SATs this week of course She's on target to get 5a in reading/writing 5b in Maths. Also, she has a piano theory exam in 4 weeks. Then she will start the next grade which is GCSE level. She is 11 years old. We have no doubt she will do well at the school.
If your daughter scored very far below the cut off for the school this year this may be an issue which will come up at appeal so this evidence may well be helpful.