Including IEPs as evidence in Appeals
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Re: Including IEPs as evidence in Appeals
So sorry to hear this, semb, especially when you put everything into your appeal and couldn't possibly have done more
While I fully agree with you about the advantages of a grouped hearing, I'm afraid separate stage ones are perfectly legal.
It's unfortunate that your presentation was cut short, but the panel have covered themselves by asking at the end whether you'd had sufficient time. (Extremely difficult, I know, for an appellant to say "No" in this situation, when it's pretty clear that they want to bring things to a conclusion.)
However,
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/ombudsman/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You need to be aware that it's a long drawn out process which could take months - but we're here if you want any help with making a complaint.
If you're able to send the official decision letter to the appeals box, I don't mind checking it to see if it looks legally watertight.
I think you're absolutely right - the parent is usually the one person in the room who is unfamiliar with the system, and vulnerable.I guess almost all parents are going through appeals for the first time whereas the school is very experienced at defending their corner.
While I fully agree with you about the advantages of a grouped hearing, I'm afraid separate stage ones are perfectly legal.
It's unfortunate that your presentation was cut short, but the panel have covered themselves by asking at the end whether you'd had sufficient time. (Extremely difficult, I know, for an appellant to say "No" in this situation, when it's pretty clear that they want to bring things to a conclusion.)
However,
- • if the school included waiting list information which could have influenced the panel, and
• if the school gave misleading answers to the panel,
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/ombudsman/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You need to be aware that it's a long drawn out process which could take months - but we're here if you want any help with making a complaint.
If you're able to send the official decision letter to the appeals box, I don't mind checking it to see if it looks legally watertight.
Etienne
Re: Including IEPs as evidence in Appeals
Hi Etienne
Thank you for this. I've been spending the last month fighting (and losing) two further appeals. I wasn't really surprised given that I felt my evidence was strongest for the GS rather than the two other schools I appealed for but I had hoped I might win one of them at least, given that they have better appeal success rates in general. I tried to tailor the evidence and present different cases for the two non-gs schools, listed as many school-specific arguments I could find etc, but frustratingly both panels had copies of my CAF and commented that they felt the GS would be better for Dd. If only I'd managed to convince the panel hearing the GS appeal of that!
I've also been re-visiting the allocated school to try to find positives (it was our 4th choice - 5th choice if you consider the independent school she won a place at but not a big enough bursary to make it possible). I really really wish I could feel more positive right now, but the allocated school just doesn't seem right for her at all. I haven't told her that, obviously, but she is truly miserable at the moment with only a couple of weeks left at primary and everyone else seems to be happy with where they are going. I don't see that we have any other options and just need to make the best of it. It's just very hard when I tried really hard to follow the advice everyone gives of finding the school you think would suit your child, and finding some alternatives, but in the end we can't have any of them. I'm trying really hard to get it into perspective, but it's just so tough when Dd is so miserable.
With all of that in mind, I've decided I may as well pursue a complaint with the EFA. I don't really hold out any hope of it being successful, and even if it is and we win a new hearing, I imagine it's likely the appeal would be unsuccessful again. On the one hand I think maybe I should just let it go - which I would if we had an alternative school Dd was happy with even if we weren't - but on the other hand I think given that she is so low I need to exhaust all of the options.
Given all of this, I've sent a copy of the appeal decision letter to the appeals box. I'd really appreciate it if you could give your thoughts. I think it is probably fine legally but I don't feel the balancing decision bit tells me anything at all really.
Any advice gratefully received
semb
Thank you for this. I've been spending the last month fighting (and losing) two further appeals. I wasn't really surprised given that I felt my evidence was strongest for the GS rather than the two other schools I appealed for but I had hoped I might win one of them at least, given that they have better appeal success rates in general. I tried to tailor the evidence and present different cases for the two non-gs schools, listed as many school-specific arguments I could find etc, but frustratingly both panels had copies of my CAF and commented that they felt the GS would be better for Dd. If only I'd managed to convince the panel hearing the GS appeal of that!
I've also been re-visiting the allocated school to try to find positives (it was our 4th choice - 5th choice if you consider the independent school she won a place at but not a big enough bursary to make it possible). I really really wish I could feel more positive right now, but the allocated school just doesn't seem right for her at all. I haven't told her that, obviously, but she is truly miserable at the moment with only a couple of weeks left at primary and everyone else seems to be happy with where they are going. I don't see that we have any other options and just need to make the best of it. It's just very hard when I tried really hard to follow the advice everyone gives of finding the school you think would suit your child, and finding some alternatives, but in the end we can't have any of them. I'm trying really hard to get it into perspective, but it's just so tough when Dd is so miserable.
With all of that in mind, I've decided I may as well pursue a complaint with the EFA. I don't really hold out any hope of it being successful, and even if it is and we win a new hearing, I imagine it's likely the appeal would be unsuccessful again. On the one hand I think maybe I should just let it go - which I would if we had an alternative school Dd was happy with even if we weren't - but on the other hand I think given that she is so low I need to exhaust all of the options.
Given all of this, I've sent a copy of the appeal decision letter to the appeals box. I'd really appreciate it if you could give your thoughts. I think it is probably fine legally but I don't feel the balancing decision bit tells me anything at all really.
Any advice gratefully received
semb
Re: Including IEPs as evidence in Appeals
Hi Sem
I'll have a look and come back to you later tomorrow.
I'll have a look and come back to you later tomorrow.
Etienne
Re: Including IEPs as evidence in Appeals
Sem
The decision letter looks legally watertight to me, so I think you're right about that.
You could try a complaint on the basis of point 1, if there is evidence in the clerk's notes to substantiate what you're saying, and if the matters being discussed were significant.
However, past experience makes me doubt that point 2 would lead anywhere.
With regard to any evidence from experts, I think the panel are probably free to come to a different conclusion, provided that they have considered the evidence.
Although you can no longer use the "in order to help me prepare for an appeal ......" argument, if you require further information that does not involve anyone's personal data, you ought to be able to use the Freedom of Information Act:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/general#a39" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The decision letter looks legally watertight to me, so I think you're right about that.
You could try a complaint on the basis of point 1, if there is evidence in the clerk's notes to substantiate what you're saying, and if the matters being discussed were significant.
However, past experience makes me doubt that point 2 would lead anywhere.
With regard to any evidence from experts, I think the panel are probably free to come to a different conclusion, provided that they have considered the evidence.
Although you can no longer use the "in order to help me prepare for an appeal ......" argument, if you require further information that does not involve anyone's personal data, you ought to be able to use the Freedom of Information Act:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/general#a39" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Etienne
Re: Including IEPs as evidence in Appeals
Thank you Etienne
I'm feeling it's all a bit futile really.
I think I'll contact the school to try to get the additional information - and then depending on what that says, make a decision about whether I could mount a case on Point 1.
Either way, I think I have to try to focus on what I can do to support Dd with things as they are, as it certainly looks extremely unlikely that I am going to achieve anything with this.
I do appreciate all of your help and guidance over the last few months though. It does make such a difference having someone supportive to ask, even if the outcome is not the outcome hoped for.
I'm feeling it's all a bit futile really.
I think I'll contact the school to try to get the additional information - and then depending on what that says, make a decision about whether I could mount a case on Point 1.
Either way, I think I have to try to focus on what I can do to support Dd with things as they are, as it certainly looks extremely unlikely that I am going to achieve anything with this.
I do appreciate all of your help and guidance over the last few months though. It does make such a difference having someone supportive to ask, even if the outcome is not the outcome hoped for.
