Defer appeal date

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Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: General teaching classrooms minimum area

Post by Etienne »

brooke68 wrote:We have received our information from the school to which we are appealing.
They have stated that only two of their general teaching classrooms are over 50msq. Am I correct in thinking that the minimum size is 49msq?
The school have not provided any information on the size of other gen teaching classrooms and the floorplans we have received do not give this info (and are very small/fuzzy/difficult to read!).
Do we have a point to argue that, as the school have not given this info they have not clearly demonstrated that they cannot accommodate an extra pupil? Form sizes are 29.
Thanks in advance for any help.
OK. In secondary schools 49 m2 is the minimum size for a general classroom with 30 pupils - but they will probably try to point out that 60 m2 is allowed for in current building regulations. If they do that, you can reply that 60 m2 is not the figure used in their net capacity formula.

State schools - but not academies - are required to have a net capacity assessment, which shows the size of each room and how many pupils can be accommodated. If they are arguing lack of space, then I think they ought to provide some independent evidence such as the net capacity assessment to support their claim.

The best approach to adopt is a questioning one, e.g. "With respect, you've provided very little hard evidence about room sizes. If lack of space is an issue, why haven't you substantiated that claim? You could for example have provided your net capacity assessment so that we and the panel can see the size of all rooms, and how many pupils can be accommodated in each."
[In the unlikely event that they offered to do this on the spot, there probably wouldn't be time to assimilate all the information!]

You could ask about the Y9 admissions.
"Have you admitted additional pupils before? Is there any hard evidence that this has caused prejudice?"
[If they happen to start KS4 a year early, I suppose they could argue that more option groups give them greater flexibility.]

See:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... school#c13" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... school#c14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You ought to be able to get hold of the net capacity assessment if you wanted to - but best to try asking the LA rather than the school if you want to retain the element of surprise! (It's usually the LA that carries out the assessment.)

Don't spend too long on stage 1.
See C1 (b)
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... -school#c1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Most schools manage to get through stage 1, so in that sense your own case at stage 2 matters more.
Etienne
brooke68
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:55 pm

Re: Defer appeal date

Post by brooke68 »

Me again...
The net capacity of the school is 62 over the actual number on roll. I cannot seem to locate the IAN anywhere. Should this information be easily accessible? Is the LA acting within guidelines by not making this information transparent?
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Defer appeal date

Post by Etienne »

brooke68 wrote:The net capacity of the school is 62 over the actual number on roll.
Interesting - although it depends whereabouts in the school the 'slack' is.
A discrepancy between the year group number and the admission number/IAN would be more significant.
I cannot seem to locate the IAN anywhere. Should this information be easily accessible?
The published admission number is always readily available, but not necessarily the IAN (which is a guideline).
The IAN is in the net capacity assessment.
Is the LA acting within guidelines by not making this information transparent?
If they're the Admission Authority, I think they would only be at fault if they failed to respond to a request for the IAN or the net capacity assessment as a whole.
Etienne
hermanmunster
Posts: 12818
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:51 am
Location: The Seaside

Re: Defer appeal date

Post by hermanmunster »

is the IAN the same as tha PAN if so then **** Grammar is **********

http://m.northyorks.gov.uk/CHttpHandler ... =13191&p=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
brooke68
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:55 pm

Re: Defer appeal date

Post by brooke68 »

I'm just putting the finishing touches to my evidence, ready to take in tomorrow ahead of the appeal next week. How much should I include in my statement and how much should I keep to myself until the hearing? I've read conflicting advice on this. It is due to be a group hearing.
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Defer appeal date

Post by Etienne »

brooke68 wrote:How much should I include in my statement and how much should I keep to myself until the hearing?
I assume you're asking about your stage 2 case? Your key arguments - and certainly all evidence - should be submitted before the hearing.
It is due to be a group hearing.
Stage 1 matters shouldn't be part of your written case.

Any points you raise at the group hearing could benefit all the other appellants as much as yourself.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... school#c29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... school#c30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Incidentally I've removed the school name from your posts above, as one never knows who might be reading this thread. You may wish to review whether any other threads you've been involved in need a bit of anonymising. Probably nothing to worry about, but we prefer to err on the side of caution when discussing tactics for an appeal! :)
Etienne
brooke68
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:55 pm

Re: Defer appeal date

Post by brooke68 »

Thank you so much - really appreciate your help and advice as ever.
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Defer appeal date

Post by Etienne »

Glad to be of some help. :)
Etienne
brooke68
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:55 pm

Re: Defer appeal date

Post by brooke68 »

Etienne wrote:Any points you raise at the group hearing could benefit all the other appellants as much as yourself.
Is that a good thing? Sorry, I feel so naïve in all this - like a lamb to the slaughter.
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Defer appeal date

Post by Etienne »

Is that a good thing?
It's just a fact ....... :)

Let's say that at the group hearing you ask some probing questions, and blow the school's case out of the water. (Improbable, but not impossible!)
If the panel turn down the school's case and decide that all appellants can be admitted, you'll see that as a good thing because you've all won (apart from the school).

A more likely scenario is that you succeed in denting the school's case, but the panel think there will still be a degree of prejudice and decide to go on to stage 2.
In this instance, when the panel take their decisions, they will be balancing each appellant's case against the school's (weakened) case. So the determining factor will be the strength of each appellant's case which - unlike the school case - will vary.
In other words, you may be responsible for denting the school's case, but you wouldn't thereby gain a unique advantage .......
Etienne
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