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 Post subject: to appeal or not?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:37 pm 
Hi, my son has missed out on a grammar place by 8 marks.
I am in a quandry to appeal or not. The school he has allocated is great, so I don't know whether to appeal or not. My question is to wonder if he would be better by being 'top' at a lower school, or 'bottom' (worst scenario) at a grammar school. He is not used to being bottom, as has always been top of the class, so I have made him aware of this. I don't know why he didn't get in, I have no excuse.
Do I appeal, and give him the benefit of being pushed a bit more, which does him good. Or would the confidence of being top of the comp be more of an advantage to him.
Do I appeal, and see what happens, and 'what will be, will be!'

 Post subject: appeals
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:31 pm 
Stats would indicate you are better to be in the top group of a good comprehensive than the bottom of a grammar. I guess it also depends on the personality of the child and a whole load of other factrors. We are similarly in the position of living in catchment of a good comprehensive (in Lincs) but with a preference for our daughter (who has passed 11+) to attend the grammar. We believe the grammar will suit her personality and approach to learning better but she may not get in on based solely on geography which is tough. On the other hand better to be in this position that to be faced with an unacceptable alternative to the grammar school,. You will make the best decision (honest!)

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:44 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:47 pm
Posts: 1348
Location: Berks,Bucks
Different statistics and researches can give contradictary results.

Here's an extract from an NFER reseach document :'The impact of selection on pupils performance'

The research suggests that:
• the most able pupils perform just as well, if not better, in comprehensive schools
• the least able pupils perform slightly better in secondary modern schools
• the impact of different school types is most strongly felt in the overlapping ability
range (average to above-average).
It seems therefore that selective systems obtain good results, particularly at key stage
3, because the grammar schools are remarkably successful in enhancing the
performance of their least able pupils – the ones who gain their grammar school
places by a relatively narrow margin. There is a common view that ‘borderline’
pupils fare better at the top of secondary modern schools, rather than ‘struggling’ in
grammar schools; our research completely contradicts that assumption.

http://www.nfer.ac.uk/publications/othe ... agen01.PDF

Of course, what applies to a group of children may not be true for each of them individually. Children who lack confidence may perform better in the top group of upper, whilst those who respond well to being more stretched
may do better in grammars.

As for appealing, I think that this is different to the 11+ preparation in the way that the stress and the work falls on the parents, not on the children. In many cases, the child doesn't even need to be aware of it.
In my opinion, if you think that your child would do better at grammar, go for it. :D
But that said, my son's friends who have started at secondary are happy and loving it. :!:

 Post subject: to appeal or not
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:31 pm 
Hi Liz,

My son missed by 6 marks and, if after seeing his headteacher this afternoon and she confirms he would be suited to a grammer school then i will definately press on for appeal. I would definately not want to place him in a school that he was going to struggle in - I wouldn't have gone through all this stress, and put him under this stress, if I, and many other people felt it wasn't right to give him this chance. If you feel in your hearts of hearts that he could achieve well at a grammer school and it offers more opportunities than the local comp i would go for appeal and don't be put off by anyone except perhaps teacher/headteacher if you respect their judgement. the second paper my son sat was non-verbal and consisted of foursection of 16 questions - they were allowed 8 minutes to complete each section, stopped given a couple of practise questions for next section and then moved on ect, ect. They were told themselves to keep an eye on the time and then only told when they had a minute left. This i know will have freaked my son, as at home I had been giving him more warning than that. I'm sure this would have led to a poorer performance and panic.

A friend told me this morning that six girls at her daughter's grammar school had been admitted via appeal - I don't know their scores. Don't be put off either by being told you only stand a chance if they missed out by one or two points. You do have to present a very good case though. Good Luck

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:27 pm 
Hi there

Firstly I must say I think before anyone allows thier child to sit the 11+ they should have decided at what score they will appeal at. Afterall if we feel our child is bright enough and has had tutoring then we will be expecting them to pass and as such will not expect them to miss by much.

I think you probably already know the answer to your own question. Before your son took the test you knew where he sat in his current school(top sets) and you felt he was good enough for a Grammar school then. Therefore if he has only just missed out then appeal. It will always be the case that there will be children achieving more then others whatever school they are in because there is more children so more competition. Don't allow your son to stand still because of fear of the unknown I am sure he will flourish just has he already has in primary school. My own personal opinion is if the child has missed out by up to 4 points max then I would appeal but as I say that is my own opinion.


 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:11 pm 
Hi, my son missed his 11+ by 5 marks last year and on the advice of his school we went to appeal (was predicted 131 - 141) but had no extreme mitigating circumstances to explain his under performance. Thankfully the appeal was successful and he is now thriving at our local Grammar (early days i know) so i would say follow your own instincts regarding your child as it is 1 test on 1 day and does not mean they will 'struggle' because of not passing and only getting through on appeal - as I said to my son - 'you were chosen based on your school work not just 1 test and you will be fine' - and thankfully he is.

Good Luck whatever you decide.


 Post subject: Appeals
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:03 am 

very encouraging news. I'm glad it all worked out for your son. you just want to do the best for them, don't you?

 Post subject: appeals
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:02 pm 

Can i ask you what time of year you appealed and was it when the secondary school admissions were known? I spoke to the headteacher of our local grammar school this morning and he said i wouldn't be able to appeal until the 1st of March and then I would only have a chance if the school is under subscribed. Was this the case with you. I was under the impression you could appeal against the result before then.


 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:27 pm 
Hi Louise, From what you've said about the style of paper your son sat i believe we're in different parts of the Country. We're in Buckinghamshire. My son sat the test last October, got his results 1st week of December and we appealed immediately with a hearing date given towards the end of January 06. We heard it had been successful within 3 days and my son was offered his 1st choice of grammar when the 1st rounds of allocations were done in the March. On the County Councils website it actually lists all the schools and also on which criteria the places were allocated - down to distance in miles - maybe yours does the same? I dont see how your school in question can be deemed full prior to any appeals as in Bucks some children get offered 2 schools and therefore the place they do not take up becomes free - how would your Borough deal with this if there were no successful appeals? time would be very tight to fill these schools and know of final numbers?

Sorry if this is not much help and good luck


 Post subject: Appeals
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:42 pm 
Hi Caroline

I'm in Lincolnshire and the school does have a different appeal system. Your system sounds very fair. I have double checked and we cannot appeal until 1st of march when all places have been allocated. We're not able to appeal beforehand re: his score. Our local grammar school is Foundation School from what I understand it makes up its own rules. Interesting to hear other people's experiences. Thanks

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