Do successful appeal kids cope well at grammar school?
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I am a teacher at a grammar school with responsibilities for monitoring pupils.
I have access to vrq scores, SATs scores and GCSE/AS/A level exams.
I have witnessed several boys win appeals who have gone on to read, for example physics or maths, at Oxbridge.
Out of my own interest, for years 7 and 8, I spend a good deal of time analysing school exam results and comparing them with entry vrqs. Being as professional and confidential as I can I have also made enquiries as to whether pupils were tutored and/or went to private junior schools.
In our school about 80% of pupils were either tutored, went to private junior schools or both.
All I have come up with is not that surprising; it is the best I have. Generally then:
Many pupils who score high vrqs rarely gone on to shine as one might predict. Yes they are good but no better than most.
Those who have not been tutored tend to do better than might be expected based on their vrq
Those who were tutored and have low vrqs tend to struggle.
Those who were tutored and get in on appeal struggle the most.
Those who had no tutoring and get in on appeal tend to do fine.
Please treat all of this with great caution. There are many exceptions!
I have access to vrq scores, SATs scores and GCSE/AS/A level exams.
I have witnessed several boys win appeals who have gone on to read, for example physics or maths, at Oxbridge.
Out of my own interest, for years 7 and 8, I spend a good deal of time analysing school exam results and comparing them with entry vrqs. Being as professional and confidential as I can I have also made enquiries as to whether pupils were tutored and/or went to private junior schools.
In our school about 80% of pupils were either tutored, went to private junior schools or both.
All I have come up with is not that surprising; it is the best I have. Generally then:
Many pupils who score high vrqs rarely gone on to shine as one might predict. Yes they are good but no better than most.
Those who have not been tutored tend to do better than might be expected based on their vrq
Those who were tutored and have low vrqs tend to struggle.
Those who were tutored and get in on appeal struggle the most.
Those who had no tutoring and get in on appeal tend to do fine.
Please treat all of this with great caution. There are many exceptions!
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- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi White Kinght
Welcome to the forum, and thank you for posting that. Your observations are obviously qualitative, but there is also an element of quantitative observation as well, which is fascinating.
I would be very interested in your views on how children cope who enter the school via the 12+/late transfer test if it exists in your area. I refer to children who take the 12+ after missing the 11+, rather than moving into the area, of course.
The question has come up before on various Bucks threads, and is relevant to many parents whose children have narrowly missed the 11+ this year.
Thank you.
Sally-Anne
Welcome to the forum, and thank you for posting that. Your observations are obviously qualitative, but there is also an element of quantitative observation as well, which is fascinating.
I would be very interested in your views on how children cope who enter the school via the 12+/late transfer test if it exists in your area. I refer to children who take the 12+ after missing the 11+, rather than moving into the area, of course.
The question has come up before on various Bucks threads, and is relevant to many parents whose children have narrowly missed the 11+ this year.
Thank you.
Sally-Anne
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- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:39 pm
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- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Having only found this site yesterday I think it's fantastic that so many of you who have been through the process will offer your experience and suggestions.
We're in a slightly worse position than MelW (117 rather than the 118 and 115 as the second score) with only two predicted 5's at Y6 SATs.
The question we keep asking ourselves is should we go through the appeal process or accept reality - i.e. that our daughter isn't suited to a GS. Her scores we're consistent, there were no extenuating circumstances and we don't have a huge weight of academic evidence. The headteacher will support the appeal but we haven't seen the form yet to understand the strength of support.
It is easy to get caught up in the "must get in" mindset but I hear the counter that bottom set in a GS is worse for confidence that top set in an US.
We're really just keen that she fulfils her potential, enjoys school-life and gets in with a good set of friends.
We're just worried about our Upper School options - and could even consider moving or going the independent route.
Any words of wisdom out there ?
We're in a slightly worse position than MelW (117 rather than the 118 and 115 as the second score) with only two predicted 5's at Y6 SATs.
The question we keep asking ourselves is should we go through the appeal process or accept reality - i.e. that our daughter isn't suited to a GS. Her scores we're consistent, there were no extenuating circumstances and we don't have a huge weight of academic evidence. The headteacher will support the appeal but we haven't seen the form yet to understand the strength of support.
It is easy to get caught up in the "must get in" mindset but I hear the counter that bottom set in a GS is worse for confidence that top set in an US.
We're really just keen that she fulfils her potential, enjoys school-life and gets in with a good set of friends.
We're just worried about our Upper School options - and could even consider moving or going the independent route.
Any words of wisdom out there ?
giles68,
PM me if you wish to ask me about Uppers - I am a teacher with a reasonable knowledge of Bucks schools.
Most GS don't set by the way -some do for Maths in Y8 or Y9.
I have only once found a proble with a pupil that got in on appeal - overcoached by a Private school - stuck out like a thumb from day one.
I have quoted elsewhere a pupil with 117 that got 4 As at A level and went to a top medical school - one of the most able pupils I have taught!
PM me if you wish to ask me about Uppers - I am a teacher with a reasonable knowledge of Bucks schools.
Most GS don't set by the way -some do for Maths in Y8 or Y9.
I have only once found a proble with a pupil that got in on appeal - overcoached by a Private school - stuck out like a thumb from day one.
I have quoted elsewhere a pupil with 117 that got 4 As at A level and went to a top medical school - one of the most able pupils I have taught!
White Knight.
Thank you so much for going to the immense trouble of posting all that information. It offers the very best of support to parents like us who have lodged appeals. Yet further evidence that we should appeal on behalf of our children when necessary.
Thank you so very much - just what I needed to hear after a long uphill struggle for transparency and fairness with a foundation school.
Best wishes!
Thank you so much for going to the immense trouble of posting all that information. It offers the very best of support to parents like us who have lodged appeals. Yet further evidence that we should appeal on behalf of our children when necessary.
Thank you so very much - just what I needed to hear after a long uphill struggle for transparency and fairness with a foundation school.
Best wishes!