CAF

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zeinab
Posts: 353
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:25 pm

Re: CAF

Post by zeinab »

So I send a Data Protection Act, subject access request to the EFA and if they refuse then I go back to ICO and tell them EFA have refused ?

Is that what you mean Etienne ? We might get a repeat of what happened with ICO.
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: CAF

Post by Etienne »

Yes.
You wrote "Come this far and not giving up, as all along I've not had sight of the notes", so might it not be worth seeing whether the EFA will comply with your request?
zeinab wrote:We might get a repeat of what happened with ICO.
Indeed we might - but let's see. The EFA have acknowledged that "the department does hold a copy".
They would have to say which section of the DPA they are using as legitimate grounds for any refusal, and it seems unlikely they could claim (as did the school) that they are not keeping the notes as part of a "relevant filing system".

PS. I would suggest asking for "whatever versions of the clerk's notes are held by the department".
Etienne
zeinab
Posts: 353
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:25 pm

Re: CAF

Post by zeinab »

Thank you Etienne for your continuous support.

And yes it is worth it, even though setbacks puts one off course. But I'm right back on course again. As you once quoted 'courage / strength isn't measured by never falling in life, but by falling and managing to get back up, stronger and to keep going, covered with past scars of life' ...... or something along those lines. :)
Last edited by zeinab on Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: CAF

Post by Etienne »

zeinab wrote:Do I request copies or the original, Etienne ?
"Whatever versions of the clerk's notes are held by the department".

Good luck! :)
Etienne
zeinab
Posts: 353
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:25 pm

Re: CAF

Post by zeinab »

Sorry, yes I missed that part, been a long week!

And again, I thank you :)
zeinab
Posts: 353
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:25 pm

Re: CAF

Post by zeinab »

Etienne wrote:
zeinab wrote:Do I request copies or the original, Etienne ?
"Whatever versions of the clerk's notes are held by the department".

Good luck! :)
Hi Etienne, please check your inbox

Is all as it should be, what's your view please?
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: CAF

Post by Etienne »

Outstanding issues:

1. Was the academic evidence considered?
I know it's not ideal, but I suspect the clerk can probably get away with just listing all the pieces of evidence.
However, now that we've seen the notes, the IAP do not appear to have addressed the first question posed by 3.13a of the SAAC:
    • "i) that there is evidence to demonstrate that the child is of the required academic standards, for example, school reports giving Year 5/Year 6 SAT results or a letter of support from their current or previous school clearly indicating why the child is considered to be of grammar school ability"
In other words, do they, or don't they, consider the child to be of grammar school ability? What is their decision on the academic evidence if they did indeed consider the evidence?

2. Was the school's case for prejudice considered?
I see no evidence of this in either the notes or the decision letter.
There is, however, mention now of an undated letter (pp15-16 in PDF) about the impact of additional children.
When was it issued? Was it available at the appeal hearing?

3. The clerk's notes
The notes make no mention of any discussion about discrepancies in the school case.
Unfortunately it's not possible to prove what was - or wasn't - said, but it does raise questions about what version of the notes we're looking at, and when they were written.
In correspondence with the ICO the clerk is reported to have said: "The appeal notes are handwritten, some sections being in shorthand". I've not seen anything in shorthand.
A message from the EFA says "I have attached the typed and handwritten clerk notes", but I've seen no typed up notes.
Am I right in thinking there could be three versions of the notes: the version we have, the original version (which includes some shorthand), and a typed up version?

Possible next steps:
• Could you shed any light on point 2 above?

• Would you like to write to the EFA to clarify whether the notes are complete and contemporaneous? Is there meant to be a typed version?
(No point raising the other issues as your case officer won't want to re-open the case.)

• If you want to take things further, there is a procedure to get someone else in the EFA to review the handling of your complaint.
As it's not an independent process, I wouldn't expect too much - but at least it's usually fairly quick.

• The very last resort would be a procedure which you can access via your MP if he/she will sign the appropriate form - but it could take a very, very, very long time to get a final decision. :roll:

The war remains unwon, but you have at least achieved two technical victories on the way -
  • a) the school has been told to improve the wording of its decision letters
    b) the IAP's decision making process is found to be "vague"! :?
The complaint has been upheld in part.
Unfortunately the EFA won't go so far as to say there's been an injustice.

We can point to a number of shortcomings, but proving that they led to an injustice is not easy.
We could have done with a smoking gun!
Etienne
zeinab
Posts: 353
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:25 pm

Re: CAF

Post by zeinab »

Hi Etienne,

During our appeal, we brought up the subject of our DD's academic ability. The IAP listened & didn't say anything, but the pleasant lady sitting in the middle smiled. We asked them if they had seen the reports/ grades, to which the lady answered, they had looked at it briefly; as they had 'just received it', when they arrived that day, but would read it properly later on. But, did they have enough time to consider all the evidence, as the following day was the last day to hear the remaining appeals? The reason for the delay in the IAP receiving my evidence was due to me sending the paperwork/ evidence in good time, 1st class, recorded delivery, but the school was about to close for half term. So letters post were dealt with until the school opened, which was a day or so before the hearing. Have emails to prove this if need be.

We explained that my DD's form tutor, had informed me the day before at parents evening that she had scored secure+(top grade) in her maths mock exam, which was the weaker of her two subjects - got 5c in Maths in end of yr 5 report, compared to 5bs for her English. The marks were exactly what the head had predicted in the letter which the IAP had a copy. Again just one member of the IAP smiled and nothing else was said. So we assumed they would pick up on it later on.

My son found some discrepancies in the school's case / paperwork that they sent. I believe I still have his copy where he underlined parts that didn't add up or there was certain errors with measurements /calculations amongst other things. Again, the pleasant lady sitting in the middle smiled. When my son stopped and looked at the school representative to respond, she also smiled and didn't argue his findings. Me on the other hand just smiled back oblivious to what was happening. :) The lady in the middle then asked him what he was doing now and my son responded, reading philosophy at uni, on a full scholarship, she said, 'Oh, that's why'. Then she said he was a credit to his gs and his sister was lucky to have him. At that point I wanted to stand up and clap. But my son's quick sharp shake of the head put an end to that.



We also told them about what happened to me and how it affected my DD. We explained and told them to refer to the 3 letters from 3 professionals who knew my daughter.

We concluded with what the school offered that the other school didn't.

They asked us if we had any questions and that was it

Truly thought the academic evidence I produced was enough to prove she would really and truly flourish, blending in with like minded children, stretched like her cousins and siblings. She was the last, so no stress there for her as well.


We don't recall anything about an undated letter during the appeal. No one mentioned it. Could this be anything relating to my recent complaint, I wonder ? :?


Will send an email to the EFA, regarding the notes, Monday morning.


Have come this far with my sidekick. Will do what I have to do.
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: CAF

Post by Etienne »

We don't recall anything about an undated letter during the appeal. No one mentioned it. Could this be anything relating to my recent complaint, I wonder ? :?
When you write on Monday morning, perhaps you could also point out that you are not aware of an undated letter from the academy trust (pp15-16 in PDF) regarding the impact of additional children on the school, and giving reasons for the school's current inability to accommodate greater numbers.
Suggest you request a copy of the PDF including the letter.
Etienne
zeinab
Posts: 353
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:25 pm

Re: CAF

Post by zeinab »

Hi Etienne,

Which part of my complaint was upheld ? Does it relate to the notes not mentioning my son's findings ? :)

And how can the EFA say the procedure was generally carried out in the right way, apart from a few things, when the notes, 'whatever copies they've submitted', don't mention anything about her high academic evidence being taken into account, which is a crucial part of evidence in a GS appeal ? It just shows a list of the evidence I produced, but 'nothing about it's contents which of course would have carried 'zero', weight on my behalf against the school's case.

Even though it was entirely up to the IAP to add whatever weight to the letters, shouldn't the notes show briefly, what the letters entailed ? How then can an investigation be carried out fairly when certain important areas weren't covered ?

And then there's the mysterious undated letter, that is separate to the notes, which raises the question ? What is really going on ? If the EFA included the above in their investigation wouldn't my complaint be fully upheld ? :D

Maybe we don't need a smoking gun after all. But possibly we need one to shoot our way though this. just like a John Wayne film :lol:

May I possibly ask if some of my forum friends on here, who've been following my journey to add any thoughts or ideas that we may have overlooked ? Or just a comment to show solidarity, peace! :lol:
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