Do appeals always go to hearing?
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Juliet
Do appeals always go to hearing?
Do appeals always go to a hearing? Or can places sometimes be offered before the hearing date just on the submitted paperwork alone?
I don't think there's any provision for an appeal decision to be taken without a formal hearing to which parents have been invited.
What occasionally happens, however, is that pupil X decides not to take up a place. That place is then offered to pupil Y by the admission authority, using the published oversubscription criteria. Pupil Y's appeal can then be cancelled.
What occasionally happens, however, is that pupil X decides not to take up a place. That place is then offered to pupil Y by the admission authority, using the published oversubscription criteria. Pupil Y's appeal can then be cancelled.
Etienne
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Juliet
What can school provide to make appeal stronger?
Thank you Etienne.
Do you know please, if Year 6 teachers are allowed to give a written statement of support or an interim report to evidence a childs abiltity which could be taken along on the day of the hearing? I ask this because the Head has stated that he cannot add any further written evidence to support our appeal as this is not the procedure and he is not allowed. Therefore, other than Year 5 SATs and old school reports, we do not have any further recent evidence of high ability to make our case stronger.
Can you please suggest what evidence school/Year 6 teachers are allowed to provide?
Thanks
Do you know please, if Year 6 teachers are allowed to give a written statement of support or an interim report to evidence a childs abiltity which could be taken along on the day of the hearing? I ask this because the Head has stated that he cannot add any further written evidence to support our appeal as this is not the procedure and he is not allowed. Therefore, other than Year 5 SATs and old school reports, we do not have any further recent evidence of high ability to make our case stronger.
Can you please suggest what evidence school/Year 6 teachers are allowed to provide?
Thanks
Dear Juliet
Is the head saying "It's too late now that you've submitted your appeal," or "The appeal system doesn't allow it," or "My LEA/governors won't let me do it".
What you are asking for certainly happens elsewhere. In Buckinghamshire, for example, heads provide an up to date report on English, Maths, and Science, predicted KS2 levels, and a statement of support. Year 6 teachers sometimes write their own letter of support.
Whether this information can technically be presented as late as the day of the appeal is not crystal clear. The Code of Practice says:
Parents should also be informed that there is no statutory time limit for submitting information about their appeal, and that they may be able to submit information after lodging their appeal, but before the hearing. However, it then goes on to say: There should be no grounds for the admission authority to produce substantial new information at the appeal, although this should not be true of parents …….
It might be worth checking with whoever is organising your appeal to see if they have a view about this, but in practice, I’ve never heard of parents being denied the opportunity to submit additional information after lodging their appeal. As far as the day of the hearing is concerned, if you were to turn up with six copies of some strong new academic evidence that you had only just received, I think the panel would be wise either to accept it or to ask for an adjournment to have time to consider it. Otherwise I believe you could have grounds for a complaint to the ombudsman.
Now, to return to the head, it depends what he means when he says “this is not the procedure and he is not allowed”. From the point of view of the appeal procedure, I can’t really see anything that stops him from providing a report. If what he’s saying is “My Local Authority (or my governors) won’t allow me to help you because they’re opposed to selective education”, that’s another matter, and there’s probably not much you can do about it. Ask him to put his reasons in writing, so that you can show them to the appeal panel.
If the head won’t co-operate, have a private word with the classteacher to see if he/she can do anything to help. (This obviously puts the classteacher in a difficult position, but the worst they can do is say “No”.)
As an alternative, you could also consider getting an assessment of your child’s ability from an educational psychologist (money and time permitting!).
Is the head saying "It's too late now that you've submitted your appeal," or "The appeal system doesn't allow it," or "My LEA/governors won't let me do it".
What you are asking for certainly happens elsewhere. In Buckinghamshire, for example, heads provide an up to date report on English, Maths, and Science, predicted KS2 levels, and a statement of support. Year 6 teachers sometimes write their own letter of support.
Whether this information can technically be presented as late as the day of the appeal is not crystal clear. The Code of Practice says:
Parents should also be informed that there is no statutory time limit for submitting information about their appeal, and that they may be able to submit information after lodging their appeal, but before the hearing. However, it then goes on to say: There should be no grounds for the admission authority to produce substantial new information at the appeal, although this should not be true of parents …….
It might be worth checking with whoever is organising your appeal to see if they have a view about this, but in practice, I’ve never heard of parents being denied the opportunity to submit additional information after lodging their appeal. As far as the day of the hearing is concerned, if you were to turn up with six copies of some strong new academic evidence that you had only just received, I think the panel would be wise either to accept it or to ask for an adjournment to have time to consider it. Otherwise I believe you could have grounds for a complaint to the ombudsman.
Now, to return to the head, it depends what he means when he says “this is not the procedure and he is not allowed”. From the point of view of the appeal procedure, I can’t really see anything that stops him from providing a report. If what he’s saying is “My Local Authority (or my governors) won’t allow me to help you because they’re opposed to selective education”, that’s another matter, and there’s probably not much you can do about it. Ask him to put his reasons in writing, so that you can show them to the appeal panel.
If the head won’t co-operate, have a private word with the classteacher to see if he/she can do anything to help. (This obviously puts the classteacher in a difficult position, but the worst they can do is say “No”.)
As an alternative, you could also consider getting an assessment of your child’s ability from an educational psychologist (money and time permitting!).
Etienne
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Juliet
Thank you for your detailed answer Etienne.
The Head actually advised us to appeal as the school expected our child to pass comfortably, however, through illness and social factors she missed out by just a few marks.Her ability is of a high standard, but the Head states 'he cannot provide any further written support as he has already submitted a HeadTeachers Appeal in January which was declined by the Independent Assessment Board'.He thinks that "not enough notice was taken of our childs {doctors certified}illness during the assessment period and this is why his HeadTeacher Appeal failed, although he told me he made strong representation on our childs behalf. Our own parental appeal in April is directly to the Governers Admission Appeal at a foundation Grammar of which my daughter also has an elder sister attending.
Knowing these further facts Etienne,is it therefore reasonable to ask the school for further evidence {other than what was sent with the HeadTeachers Appeal back in Jan}. as you have suggested? I know they are not opposed to selective education.
Also, will we have sight at the appeal, of what the HeadTeacher did submit in January as I have read that this is confidential and parents do not get to view this documentation.
Thank you for your valuable help.
The Head actually advised us to appeal as the school expected our child to pass comfortably, however, through illness and social factors she missed out by just a few marks.Her ability is of a high standard, but the Head states 'he cannot provide any further written support as he has already submitted a HeadTeachers Appeal in January which was declined by the Independent Assessment Board'.He thinks that "not enough notice was taken of our childs {doctors certified}illness during the assessment period and this is why his HeadTeacher Appeal failed, although he told me he made strong representation on our childs behalf. Our own parental appeal in April is directly to the Governers Admission Appeal at a foundation Grammar of which my daughter also has an elder sister attending.
Knowing these further facts Etienne,is it therefore reasonable to ask the school for further evidence {other than what was sent with the HeadTeachers Appeal back in Jan}. as you have suggested? I know they are not opposed to selective education.
Also, will we have sight at the appeal, of what the HeadTeacher did submit in January as I have read that this is confidential and parents do not get to view this documentation.
Thank you for your valuable help.
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worried
This just goes to show how different schools support parents.Our child missed out on a pass by 3 marks on his maths paper which is his strongest subject and the Heads appeal in January was rejected.Since the 2nd March I have had 2 meetings with the Head ,offered by him (as have other parents who are appealing.) On that first visit I was given my childs marks and also a copy of the Headteachers Appeal for my reference.We were then advised to think about what we wanted to do and if we decided that we wished to appeal ourselves a further appointment would be made nearer the appeal submission date.On this occassion the class teacher was also present.We were given a letter of support 2 sides long commenting on all areas of the cirriculum,work study skills and extra-curricular activities.
I am very aware that this is all extra work for many people within the school and realise now that this is obviously not common practice everywhere.Good luck.
I am very aware that this is all extra work for many people within the school and realise now that this is obviously not common practice everywhere.Good luck.
Dear Juliet
The situation is clearer now (the previous "appeal" sounds like what the code of practice calls a "non-statutory review").
Regarding the report in January, I suspect that it remains confidential unless it is to be passed on to the appeal panel, in which case you will have the right to see it.
I think it would be worth having another meeting with the head (especially as he appears to have been supportive).
1. Ask him if his January report will be made available to the appeal panel.
2. If not, ask him whether he would reconsider his decision not to write another report.
3. If he is reluctant, point out that there's nothing in the Dfes Code of Practice on Appeals to stop him doing so, and mention the useful bit of information above from Worried (I assume you are both referring to the same admission authority).
The situation is clearer now (the previous "appeal" sounds like what the code of practice calls a "non-statutory review").
Regarding the report in January, I suspect that it remains confidential unless it is to be passed on to the appeal panel, in which case you will have the right to see it.
I think it would be worth having another meeting with the head (especially as he appears to have been supportive).
1. Ask him if his January report will be made available to the appeal panel.
2. If not, ask him whether he would reconsider his decision not to write another report.
3. If he is reluctant, point out that there's nothing in the Dfes Code of Practice on Appeals to stop him doing so, and mention the useful bit of information above from Worried (I assume you are both referring to the same admission authority).
Etienne
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Juliet
Thank You
Thank You once again Etienne.
I have a meeting arranged with the Year 6 teacher tomorrow and I will ask her for her written support.
I really don't think I will get any further with the Head now unfortunetely as he is soon to retire and is apparently 'winding down' as a new Head has already been appointed. Do you think that the Governers of the Foundation Grammar will already have a copy of the HeadTeachers appeal? When I asked this, the Head replied " They should have all the paperwork already that I sent in January to The Independent Assessment Board". How is this arranged and then forwarded on for a 'second go", do you know please ? This is all new territory for me and guidance is either 'washy' or non-exsistant or at it's worse, even secretive!
It is interesting to see how different the post from 'Worried' is and just how much support schols CAN give if they can be bothered. Thank you 'Worried' for your comments.
I have a meeting arranged with the Year 6 teacher tomorrow and I will ask her for her written support.
I really don't think I will get any further with the Head now unfortunetely as he is soon to retire and is apparently 'winding down' as a new Head has already been appointed. Do you think that the Governers of the Foundation Grammar will already have a copy of the HeadTeachers appeal? When I asked this, the Head replied " They should have all the paperwork already that I sent in January to The Independent Assessment Board". How is this arranged and then forwarded on for a 'second go", do you know please ? This is all new territory for me and guidance is either 'washy' or non-exsistant or at it's worse, even secretive!
It is interesting to see how different the post from 'Worried' is and just how much support schols CAN give if they can be bothered. Thank you 'Worried' for your comments.
Dear Juliet
I'm afraid I can only give general advice, as I have no detailed knowledge of your particular area. I don't know where the previous paperwork is held at the moment - it should certainly not be with the governors' independent appeal panel. Whoever arranges the appeals should send the papers to you and to the panel at exactly the same time (normally about a week before the hearing).
As to whether the head's previous report will be included:- when Bucks had a review stage (the equivalent, I think of your Assessment Board) the headteacher's confidential report was passed on to any subsequent appeal and made available to all parties a week before the hearing. My guess is that it could well be the same for your area, because surely the panel will want some academic evidence? Perhaps the year 6 classteacher could tell you or find out for you. Failing that, you could ring the foundation school and ask them.
Good luck for your meeting tomorrow!
I'm afraid I can only give general advice, as I have no detailed knowledge of your particular area. I don't know where the previous paperwork is held at the moment - it should certainly not be with the governors' independent appeal panel. Whoever arranges the appeals should send the papers to you and to the panel at exactly the same time (normally about a week before the hearing).
As to whether the head's previous report will be included:- when Bucks had a review stage (the equivalent, I think of your Assessment Board) the headteacher's confidential report was passed on to any subsequent appeal and made available to all parties a week before the hearing. My guess is that it could well be the same for your area, because surely the panel will want some academic evidence? Perhaps the year 6 classteacher could tell you or find out for you. Failing that, you could ring the foundation school and ask them.
Good luck for your meeting tomorrow!
Etienne
