Selection Review , prove it wasn't FCO

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bucksdad8623
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:49 pm

Re: Selection Review , prove it wasn't FCO

Post by bucksdad8623 »

I will do as you advise, thanks for suggesting that. Unfortunately I'm running out of appeals, just one left.
I did my utmost at the last appeal to highlight the mistakes made by the SAP, I think they may have accepted my argument.
But I don't think I got past FCO so I think they won't consider it.
This was a school's run appeal, when I tried to question the school's representative the chairperson stepped in and said from her experience of sitting on selection review panels that record keeping is poor but she's sure all the correct procedures would have been followed.
Doesn't sound very impartial..

Worryingly during the appeal I referred to some evidence included in the school's case, they weren't aware of it and I had to show them. So much for claiming to read the evidence in advance.

I did try and mention that not having the SAP decision letter made the selection review unfair as I didn't have the means to justify our argument that 10% extra time in part of the test was insufficient.
This was rebuffed by the chairperson, I didn't understand the reasons why, by this time I was too frazzled.
Do you think I can use the flaws in the SAP process as part of my FCO arguments?
I am worried that in our final appeal we will come up against an unsympathetic panel who will take the view that the selection review was done properly because in their experience it usually is.
Thanks for your help.
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Selection Review , prove it wasn't FCO

Post by Etienne »

..... said from her experience of sitting on selection review panels that record keeping is poor but she's sure all the correct procedures would have been followed.
It doesn't exactly suggest she approaches each case with an open mind, does it?
I wonder if that comment was noted by the clerk. It should have been.
Do you think I can use the flaws in the SAP process as part of my FCO arguments?
I see four distinct parts to your particular appeal:
Whether the admission arrangements were correctly applied - this is where you focus on the SAP.
FCO arguments - you could also refer to the SAP under this heading, but keep the focus on the SRP.
If the SRP should have seen from the SAP paperwork made available to them that your daughter was put at a disadvantage, but didn't pick this up, query whether the SRP process was FCO.
academic evidence
reasons for wanting a place
Etienne
bucksdad8623
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:49 pm

Re: Selection Review , prove it wasn't FCO

Post by bucksdad8623 »

Thanks for the advice Etienne,
Just so my understanding, considering whether the admission arrangements were correctly applied. That's something we have to discuss, would this be the 1st thing to discuss (before FCO) or during the appeal?
In terms of the SAP decision, I think the SRP didn't have the notes of the SAP, but I couldn't be sure.
They may then argue with the information given they made the right decision in accepting the 10% in the verbal only. It feels unfair that they didn't (if that's true) have all the evidence, but whether that's a good enough argument.

I agree about your comments from the chairperson of the last appeal. I don't want my DD to go that school particularly, so probably won't question it further. In her introduction she said she'd sat on hundreds of appeals, I don't think she was impartial and I wouldn't want her on any future appeal irrespective of our case.
I think if you sit on hundreds of appeals you become part of the system and not independent, similar reason for not letting members of the legal profession sit on juries.

Thanks again.
bucksdad8623
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:49 pm

Re: Selection Review , prove it wasn't FCO

Post by bucksdad8623 »

I also meant to say the panel did make the point that the school we were appealing for wasn't our first choice, that was clear from the evidence sent to them by the admissions authority. Earlier I contacted the appeals team to point this out and they said it wouldn't matter and nothing could be done.
It didn't help that I mentioned in our SRP submission that this other school was our first choice, and the panel saw that too.

My advice is to anyone submitting evidence to the selection review panel, to think carefully what you write. Should you find yourself in front on an appeal panel the following summer, the panel will see that information.
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Selection Review , prove it wasn't FCO

Post by Etienne »

bucksdad8623 wrote:Thanks for the advice Etienne,
Just so my understanding, considering whether the admission arrangements were correctly applied. That's something we have to discuss, would this be the 1st thing to discuss (before FCO) or during the appeal?
The "four distinct parts" I listed further above would make up the appeal.

I would start with "whether or not the admission arrangements were correctly applied", because in a sense it's left over from stage one.
Say that you appreciate the admission arrangements are normally a stage one matter, but that it wouldn't have been appropriate for you to raise individual concerns at a group hearing.
Then make the point that the SAP is part of the admission arrangements, that you have serious doubts about the process, and would therefore like the panel to consider whether the admission arrangements were correctly applied in this particular case.
In terms of the SAP decision, I think the SRP didn't have the notes of the SAP, but I couldn't be sure.
I would proceed on the assumption that the SRP did have all the notes.
If the LA rep. can prove otherwise, so be it - but it's in your own interests not to raise any doubts yourself.
I also meant to say the panel did make the point that the school we were appealing for wasn't our first choice
I do feel uneasy about this line of questioning. It depends what use they made of the information.
Etienne
bucksdad8623
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:49 pm

Re: Selection Review , prove it wasn't FCO

Post by bucksdad8623 »

Dear Etienne,
I have a question about a panel member on our upcoming appeal, we know them but I'd rather not go into detail on an open forum.
Would you mind giving advice if I post details in the appeals box?
Thanks
Sally-Anne
Posts: 9235
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
Location: Buckinghamshire

Re: Selection Review , prove it wasn't FCO

Post by Sally-Anne »

I'm not sure if Etienne is around at the moment, but I am, so yes, please do send to the AppealsBox.
ToadMum
Posts: 11947
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:41 pm
Location: Essex

Re: Selection Review , prove it wasn't FCO

Post by ToadMum »

Etienne wrote:
I also meant to say the panel did make the point that the school we were appealing for wasn't our first choice
I do feel uneasy about this line of questioning. It depends what use they made of the information.
Depending on whether or not you put anything in the 'supporting comments' bit on your original CAF that indicated the the school that is the subject of the current appeal was very much an 'also ran' compared to the school(s) you placed above it, you can always say that of course you had to sort your preferences into some kind of order for the purpose of completing your CAF, but...

I would hope that any panel member would recognise that you have a perfect right to appeal for a place at any school for which your DC was turned down and that if you named a school on your CAF, you must have wanted your DC to go there (if only as a next best option) and you are being realistic about your chances of winning any particular appeal and so want to maximise your chance of getting any of your 'more preferred' schools.

(Although - and I am not at all suggesting that this applies in your case - the number of people who do name a school and not necessarily in bottom place on their CAF and then complain of the unreasonableness of the LA in allocating then that particular, totally unsuitable school, does rather beggar belief :roll: ).
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx
bucksdad8623
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:49 pm

Re: Selection Review , prove it wasn't FCO

Post by bucksdad8623 »

Thanks Sally-Anne.
I've sent a message.
Sally-Anne
Posts: 9235
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
Location: Buckinghamshire

Re: Selection Review , prove it wasn't FCO

Post by Sally-Anne »

Thanks, message safely received.

I would also be concerned about the impartiality of the panel member.

I would perhaps have expected the panel member to have "declared an interest" in the case, given the background, but s/he may not have been aware of your individual situation, despite the discussions you had with the school at the time.

If so, s/he might still be entirely impartial, but you should definitely flag the issue to Appeals.
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