West Kent - Appeal of over subscription Tonbridge Grammar S.

[piggymom]

Do you think there is a conflict of evidence shown/ Is it ok to show these two SAT tests to support my dd's appeal case?

CAT tests, not SATs?
Could you give me all the individual scores?
(Do you have them in an official letter?)

The individual scores are all in the report, which I got an insight from your point is that I shall ask the company to type the scores up in the letter for me, for the Panel's easy reference, and with the full report attached just in case the panel want to see, that save their time to flip through the papers.

My dd's scores are summarized as below:

Mar 2017 SAT:
Verbal 128
Quantitative 122
Non-verbal 139
Spatial 141
Mean: 133

Jun 2016 SAT:
Verbal 110
Quantitative 130
Non-verbal 128
Spatial 134
Mean: 126

(The "picture/story" I am trying to tell is that she is very strong at maths, non-verbal, but does less well in English/verbal in the test because she is not native English speaker, but the short report (I just sent to in-box) stated that my dd is overall strong, may not grasp the Eng vocab well for the time being but she will surely catch up in an Eng speaking environment etc. etc. etc...

That is why I have a question of whether the "story/picture" I am putting up portraits a logical case or actually make the panel more confusing.)

The independent test centre my dd took the test, has assessed her English/verbal level, and wrote a short report.

I have a CAT report dated June 2016, a CAT report March 2017, and an EP report, but I can't see a "short report".
Sorry if I'm overlooking something.

Apologies - sent only this file to the inbox again just now.

Million of thanks again.

[Etienne]

The individual scores are all in the report

Thanks - I flipped through the report twice, but am afraid I didn't spot them.

I shall ask the company to type the scores up in the letter for me, for the Panel's easy reference, and with the full report attached just in case the panel want to see, that save their time to flip through the papers.

Excellent idea, but I'm less keen on a letter headed "Tutorial Centre".
See B12(c): http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b12" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
How is an appeal panel going to be sure about a tutorial centre's independence, reliability, and reputation?
Are tutors regulated where you are? Is there a reputable professional body that will vouch for them?

It might be better to summarise the scores yourself, and provide a reference to the page where the information can be corroborated.
On the relevant page, you can draw attention to the scores:
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/general#a53" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No problem with the CAT reports because they have the GL Assessment heading and CAT4 logo.

Mar 2017 SAT:
Verbal 128
Quantitative 122
Non-verbal 139
Spatial 141
Mean: 133

Jun 2016 SAT:
Verbal 110
Quantitative 130
Non-verbal 128
Spatial 134
Mean: 126

I'm happy that you use both sets of results because of the improvement in VR.

Quantitative has dropped, as you say, but it seems to me this is more than offset by a higher NVR and mean score.

Apologies - sent only this file to the inbox again just now.

Now that I've seen this, I'd be inclined not to use it - partly for reasons explained further above, and partly because it strays into non-academic areas (rapport, happiness, etc.) which are not relevant for appeal purposes.

The EP report looks very helpful.

The "picture/story" I am trying to tell is that she is very strong at maths, non-verbal, but does less well in English/verbal in the test because she is not native English speaker

I agree. You can point out that even though English is her second language,
• it is more than sufficient to access the curriculum,
• her CAT VR has risen to 128,
• and the panel can be assured that her very considerable work ethic will guarantee further rapid progress.

[piggymom]

We now have received the school's prejudice statement.

To be honest, I think it is quite valid when the school mentioned about the physical resources limitation, e.g. each classroom is designed to accommodate 30 desks and chairs (and admitting one more student, students will have to share their desks; IT room is equipped with 30 computers to allow every one to work independently, and accepting >30 comprises the teacher's ability to deliver IT based teaching and learning, and cause prejudices to the learning experience of individual students as they are required to share the computer.

Have sent the school's prejudice statement to the Appeal in box.

Question:
I know it sounds silly as I want a place for my dd, but I kind of understand the school's limitation and where they stand.

Is there any point from the School's prejudice statement, from your experience, which worth point out?

Again, million of thanks for all the valuable advice and support all along, especially to Etienne.

[Etienne]

At the hearing, ask if any classes in years 7-9 have more than 30 pupils.
If "Yes", what evidence is there that this really has caused prejudice?

I tend to agree, though, that they ought to win stage 1.

Don't forget that, at stage 2, you need to counter the school's case for prejudice by putting forward reasons for wanting a place at this particular school.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... -school#c2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[piggymom]

At the hearing, ask if any classes in years 7-9 have more than 30 pupils.
If "Yes", what evidence is there that this really has caused prejudice?

Thank you for your reply, Etienne.

There is not more than 30 students in each class in years 7-11 (as they showed the figures to us, the file is sent to Appeals in box).

Well, may be we could only focus on our dd's case. It is hard as the school has strong case.

Question:
In this school's case, have you seen other parents' experience before, and is there anything other thing/point as parents we should do/ask at stage one?

Many thanks

[Etienne]

In this school's case, have you seen other parents' experience before,

I've only seen experiences as reported on here:
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum ... =35&t=9205" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There are several reports on TGS, although they don't necessarily focus on stage 1.

and is there anything other thing/point as parents we should do/ask at stage one?

I've mentioned the most obvious omission, but they've sent you the information anyway.

I note that they don't give any room sizes, but to be fair to them room size doesn't appear to be part of their case. The argument they're using is that rooms are equipped for 30 pupils.


When looking at the previous reports on TGS, there appeared to be no group hearing (individual stage ones are a dreadful system in my view!).
However, you were asking earlier on if you needed to fly in for two separate appointments, which suggests things have changed.
Do you know for certain that there's a group stage one?

[piggymom]

When looking at the previous reports on TGS, there appeared to be no group hearing (a dreadful system in my view!).
However, you were asking earlier on if you needed to fly in for two separate appointments, which suggests things have changed.
Do you know for certain that there's a group stage one?

Yes, Etienne, TGS confirmed there will be group stage one hearing, to be held a week before the individual hearing.

Read the suggested links again and found the three cases about TGS, thank you.

[Etienne]

Good!

If you attend, you will get to hear whether other parents raise any points of interest.

may be we could only focus on our dd's case

I think that would be the best approach.
I can't see the school losing at stage 1.

[piggymom]

I think that would be the best approach.

Etienne, thank you so much for your advice and support all along.

I am not regret no matter what the result comes out as I feel my dd and I have done all our best to prepare and support our case. Will keep you posted.

[piggymom]

You can challenge the school's case by asking questions at stage 1 - just as the school is free to question your case at stage 2 if they want to. (They're not going to send in a written rebuttal of your case in advance.)

Dear Eitenne,

So, the school (instead of just the three panel members on Appeal committee) is going to read my dd's appeal case and may ask question during the appeal section? I do not aware there will be school member representative there too...
I will post this on my post as well to avoid hijacking this post. Let's communicate there. Many thanks.