Unsuccessful appeal - material change in circumstances

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Bexster2
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:42 pm

Unsuccessful appeal - material change in circumstances

Post by Bexster2 »

Hi

I hope you don't mind me posting but I have read through all the helpful advice provided on this forum. I have a question in relation to an oversubscription appeal to a secondary school. Is that ok?

We have just heard that our appeal to a secondary school was unsuccessful. We are currently looking into whether we can complain on the grounds of process and are waiting to receive a copy of the clerk's notes. I may need to ask for advice in relation to this once I have had time to properly digest it. I understand that we cannot complain based on judgement (even though the judgement in our view was entirely unjust).

In the meantime, we wonder if we can also request a new appeal due to a material change in circumstances. One of key issues with our appeal was logistics - we cannot get our child home from the bus-stop for her allocated school. The bus-stop is a mile and a half walk down an unlit windy country road with no footpath or verge. This morning we found out that there are no places on that bus for our daughter so we are now faced with the prospect of taking her to and from a school about 7 miles away each day. We cannot do this. Both my husband and I work and we have two other children at the village primary school. In our view this is a material change from having to get some form of paid childcare 3 days a week in the next village. Do you have any knowledge of anyone being able to get a new appeal based on this kind of change? Any words of wisdom will be gratefully received.

Thanks
anotherdad
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:33 pm

Re: Unsuccessful appeal - material change in circumstances

Post by anotherdad »

Bexster2 wrote:In the meantime, we wonder if we can also request a new appeal due to a material change in circumstances. One of key issues with our appeal was logistics - we cannot get our child home from the bus-stop for her allocated school. The bus-stop is a mile and a half walk down an unlit windy country road with no footpath or verge. This morning we found out that there are no places on that bus for our daughter so we are now faced with the prospect of taking her to and from a school about 7 miles away each day. We cannot do this. Both my husband and I work and we have two other children at the village primary school. In our view this is a material change from having to get some form of paid childcare 3 days a week in the next village. Do you have any knowledge of anyone being able to get a new appeal based on this kind of change? Any words of wisdom will be gratefully received.

Thanks
I believe that what counts as a material change in circumstances is open to interpretation but I doubt that an oversubscribed bus service would count. Your circumstances are not dissimilar to those of probably thousands of other families who would prefer to be allocated to a closer school and for who home to school transport is difficult.
Bexster2
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:42 pm

Re: Unsuccessful appeal - material change in circumstances

Post by Bexster2 »

Hi

Thanks for your response. You may well be correct, and I imagine county would say the same, however I cannot ignore the thought that I am sure that the appeal outcome would have been different if this point was realised at the time of the appeal. We have gone from it being extremely difficult to get our child to school to it being seemingly impossible.

Thanks
ToadMum
Posts: 11945
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:41 pm
Location: Essex

Re: Unsuccessful appeal - material change in circumstances

Post by ToadMum »

Bexster2 wrote:Hi

Thanks for your response. You may well be correct, and I imagine county would say the same, however I cannot ignore the thought that I am sure that the appeal outcome would have been different if this point was realised at the time of the appeal. We have gone from it being extremely difficult to get our child to school to it being seemingly impossible.

Thanks
Is the allocated school one that you put on your CAF (even as a last preference), or was it given to you as a 'Non Ranked Allocation'?

If the former, was there formerly also transport available which took your DD all the way to and from home, not just to a bus stop along a 'dangerous' walking route, which was also withdrawn at some point? Unfortunately, if not, the assumption will have been that you had taken into account the route that your DD would have to take when you completed your application.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx
kenyancowgirl
Posts: 6738
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:59 pm

Re: Unsuccessful appeal - material change in circumstances

Post by kenyancowgirl »

It may have made a difference...it may not - is this a school that you listed on your CAF? If it IS a school you listed on your CAF then it is your responsibility to make sure that you can get them there...the bus companies make ot very clear that just because they run a route one year it may not run another. If it was not a school that you listed on your CAF, it seems that you maybe didn't follow standard advice that you should always list at least one school that you are guaranteed to be offered a place in, and are happy with. Anotherdad is right - it is a "problem" faced by lots of parents - me included when I had one in secondary and one in primary - and most just suck it up and work out ways to deal with it - using friends etc to help if necessary. For two years, my childminder took home more of my salary than I did, but I knew it was a temporary thing until my son was older.

Crossed with TM but it seems we are singing from the same hymn sheet!
Bexster2
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:42 pm

Re: Unsuccessful appeal - material change in circumstances

Post by Bexster2 »

Thank you all. Yes, our allocated school is our second choice school. It would have always been a struggle to send our child there but we have very little choice here. No school is less than 6.14 miles away (as the crow flies) and all the schools are becoming oversubscribed. We have two catchment schools. The one which is our closest, which we would get free transport, to is oversubscribed. The next, has spaces but is a failing school and has no-one from our area that attends it. It doesn't suit our daughter for a number of reasons, including social, logistic and choice of classes. The area around the school is also being heavily developed so it is unlikely that our younger children would be able to get a place. Our first preference school is our other catchment school with a bus from the village. All the children in our village who do not go to grammar go to this school. Our daughter is the first child to not get a place from our village. We have no public bus in the village either. It was always a case of fully expecting to get into our first preference school. Its not as though we could have put down other options. Also, normally we would have been able to get spaces on the other bus to our second choice school, but because this is a freak year and the first preference school has taken so few children from the other village, they have filled up the bus (they get priority as it is their closest school).

Its a hard pill to swallow as the appeals panel have made some very odd decisions when comparing cases. We appreciate that we cannot appeal on judgement even though it seems incredibly unjust. About 7 of the awarded appeals were to children who get a free bus to our allocated school from the bus stop just outside their houses.
kenyancowgirl
Posts: 6738
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:59 pm

Re: Unsuccessful appeal - material change in circumstances

Post by kenyancowgirl »

"...It was always a case of fully expecting to get into our first preference school. Its not as though we could have put down other options..."

Therein, in a sense, lies your problem - you live in an area where, by your own account, the two catchment schools you were happy with are over subscribed, and you live quite far away - therefore you were not guaranteed a place in either - and assumedly GS was another option on your CAF. You can of course fill your CAF, even with school's from other counties - you may not meet their criteria (often distance) but most on here would advise you use all your spaces! Very oten we hear about people who think, mistakenly, if they only put one or two schools on the CAF that teh LA will HAVE to allocate them one of them - this is not true of course. The LA have at least offered you one of your actual choices, making the assumption that you will have worked out how to get your child there. Buses are a problem for rural villages but not guaranteed - and advice, when looking at schools is always "work out how you will get there and how long it will take". Even if there was a bus you would need back up plans as, inevitably they don't always turn up!

You cannot really comment on other people's appeals. They are not, in a sense, compared against each other - they are looked at on their own merit in private, so you have no idea if there were any other pertinent facts that gave them priority.

But, yes, it is a hard pill to swallow. Try and focus now on addressing the transport issue - you may find it is easier once your DD starts at the school and has after school clubs etc that may keep her in school long enough for you to collect her after work - you may find there are other children in older years travelling from your village, or beyond, who are willing to lift share. Assumedly, if this is a bog standard comprehensive, it will have some form of sibling rule, so you should feel the burden eased as your other children come through.
hermanmunster
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Location: The Seaside

Re: Unsuccessful appeal - material change in circumstances

Post by hermanmunster »

I used to live in a similar setting - all schools miles away, I opted not to send a child (primary) level to the school where there was actually a school bus so was aware I would have to sort something myself. That was about 7 miles away and we were both working and had to juggle it - it can be really and but it works out in the end with things after school, other people in the area etc etc .

I presume you have checked but can your daughter remain on the waiting list for the first preference school ? It is possible that a place may come up there.
ToadMum
Posts: 11945
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:41 pm
Location: Essex

Re: Unsuccessful appeal - material change in circumstances

Post by ToadMum »

hermanmunster wrote:I used to live in a similar setting - all schools miles away, I opted not to send a child (primary) level to the school where there was actually a school bus so was aware I would have to sort something myself. That was about 7 miles away and we were both working and had to juggle it - it can be really and but it works out in the end with things after school, other people in the area etc etc .

I presume you have checked but can your daughter remain on the waiting list for the first preference school ? It is possible that a place may come up there.
I have heard of a school where names are automatically removed from a waiting list if a place is awarded at appeal but turned down (this may actually be the norm? It's just that I've only come across the one instance and presumably there is nothing to stop the parent having another go with a fresh application) but the appeals process and the waiting list are two separate entities. The appeal panel are not meant to know where on a waiting list an appellant is, if at all, and if the school insists on stating the waiting list position on their appeal papers, the panel are reminded by the chair to ignore it. So if the OP was on the waiting list before, they should still be now, although he the school is now x over PAN, of course the wait for a place at the school will be prolonged.

Unless this is Kent, possibly, where schools seem to just do their own thing when it comes to the admissions and appeals processes? :?
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx
Bexster2
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:42 pm

Re: Unsuccessful appeal - material change in circumstances

Post by Bexster2 »

Thank you. I do appreciate the advice about filling up all the spaces. However there is no point in putting down schools that we have zero chance of getting our child into or to. Particularly when this is the first year that anyone from our village failed to get into our preferred school and will also be the first year when it would not be possible to get a bus from the nearby village to our second choice school. Putting down a third and forth choice would have made no difference, other than making it even more impossible to get her to school, she would still have been allocated her second choice. The purpose of my post was to request whether anyone had any experience of a material change in circumstances. I have had some responses in relation to that - thank you for taking the time to reply.
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