And so our journey begins....

[hermanmunster]

[
This wasn’t my experience at two appeals in Kent last year. Both panels were VERY interested in extra curricular ( incl Guides letter ). In fact one panel expressly mentioned at the group hearing how much value they placed on extra curricular proof and that they wanted to see “well rounded” children.

Was that for selective schools?

[local_lass]

I am an appeals panel member, albeit not in Kent but speaking for our area a panel would not consider non-academic evidence in a grammar school appeal. Panels should of course give parents presenting their case the opportunity to say all they wish to say, which will often include a great deal of information on extra-curricular activities but it is of no relevance to the decision.

[FortyNinePence]

[
This wasn’t my experience at two appeals in Kent last year. Both panels were VERY interested in extra curricular ( incl Guides letter ). In fact one panel expressly mentioned at the group hearing how much value they placed on extra curricular proof and that they wanted to see “well rounded” children.

Was that for selective schools?

Yes both selective (very well known) grammar schools. The one panel could not have made it more explicit at the group hearing that they were not just interested in academic evidence they wanted to see and hear about what they did outside school - and both commented on it in the individual hearings - with both saying “pleased to see she is well rounded” etc.

[Sally-Anne]

The one panel could not have made it more explicit at the group hearing that they were not just interested in academic evidence they wanted to see and hear about what they did outside school - and both commented on it in the individual hearings - with both saying “pleased to see she is well rounded” etc.

I'm afraid that in my experience, panels who make such comments are being polite and humouring parents who insist upon throwing every extra-curricular achievement they can think of at the appeal.

At the end of the day, it will all be disregarded in favour of the academic evidence.

[Etienne]

This wasn’t my experience at two appeals in Kent last year.

Interesting.

My conclusions are based on 100s of appeals - from my time as a panel member, and the very large number of cases Sally-Anne and I have studied over many years on the forum. Where necessary (e.g. when complaining to the ombudsman or ESFA) forum members have shared with us their decision letters and the clerk's notes of the panel's deliberations. The latter is probably the best source of information about how a panel actually arrived at its decision.
We have not come across one single instance of "scouts" (or anything similar) being a factor in the panel's decision.

Appearances can sometimes be deceptive. It can be difficult for an appellant to tell what panel members are really thinking in a hearing.
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/general#a37" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't know what happened at FortyNinePence's appeal, but generally speaking, many panels may be happy to chat about extra-curricular activities, and will ask "filler questions" if they can't think what else to ask. A sympathetic panel tries to show an interest.

Panel members are of course fallible human beings! Not every panel member is a model of perfection.
To give an extreme example, we had a case on the forum in 2007 where a panel member had asked the parent "Is he a member of the boy scouts? " "Does he have a mobile phone?" "Do you have a lock on your computer?" "What would you do if your son came home and told you another child at school had been carrying a knife?" "Does he go to the methodist chapel in your village?".
This was taking irrelevant questions to a new level! Fortunately the parent didn't think it was the norm, and complained to the ombudsman. The ombudsman upheld the complaint, said that the panel should be re-trained, and required a re-hearing in front of a different panel.

I am an appeals panel member, albeit not in Kent but speaking for our area a panel would not consider non-academic evidence in a grammar school appeal. Panels should of course give parents presenting their case the opportunity to say all they wish to say, which will often include a great deal of information on extra-curricular activities but it is of no relevance to the decision.

Good to hear from you local_lass.
I don't believe the decision making elsewhere would normally be any different .
Only panel members, and the clerk (who sits in on the panel's deliberations), are really in a position to know how decisions are made.

We try to offer the best advice we can in the Q&As - but no one is obliged to accept it.

B12. Any do’s and don’ts for an appeal against non-qualification?

Here are some suggestions:

b) Don’t spend time saying how wonderful your child is at extracurricular activities unless the panel ask you a specific question. Even if they do, don’t expect non-academic extracurricular activities to influence a panel’s decision.
c) Letters of commendation from private tutors, relatives, neighbours, club secretaries, scout leaders, sports coaches, and MPs won’t impress!

[FortyNinePence]

I’m happy to go into detail via PM. Perhaps the other 100 plus parents that attended the group hearing and heard what was said who might be reading this can also back me up.

Not meaning to undermine your years of experience, just stating what happened last year from my personal experience.

[Etienne]

Hi FortyNinePence

I was interested in your experience, but my comments were about appeals in general.
I am not disputing what was said at your particular hearing. I just don't think it's the norm.

I hope that, when the panel met to take their decisions, the clerk reminded them of the Appeals Code, which is mandatory for all state schools:

• • "a panel must only uphold the appeal if it is satisfied that there is evidence to demonstrate that the child is of the required academic standards".

[crowbella]

Hi, so the latest is that we will have a representative from the school present with us at our appeal which I understand is great news. I have a quick question, from an academic perspective for our appeal is it better if we start the year with our dd summary reading Above Expected Age Attainment Range from school or does it matter if it's Upper Within? I am trying to understand if we should show at appeal she is at the "right" level from the beginning of the year or if we should show her developing to this throughout the year. Obviously I understand we will be tied to a degree by what the school says in her report!

Many thanks,

[Etienne]

I think what matters is the end of Y6 prediction (ideally "significantly above expected level") - and whether that prediction looks realistic taking into account previous attainment.
If there is an apparent mismatch, then at an appeal (in the summer term) the current school might be able to justify the prediction by reference to recent rapid progress.