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 Post subject: Thinking of Appealing.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Hello Forum members,

The results of last Thursday are sinking in and I have spent the a lot of time over the weekend reading the info in this Appeals section. I believe I'm coming to terms of the process and what is involved. How reliable are the invigilators logs? My DS explained what happened to me as soon a he got into the car, on exam day as he was worried. I spoke to the school first thing Monday morning seeking confirmation.

I was waiting for his results and hoping the incident did not affect the score. But I believe it has.

Hence, the appeal. But the invigilators report confirms part of DS's story, not all. Sorry I am being bit vague here with all the details. So basically, if i went to appeal, it would be my DS's word against the logged report.

Would a 10 ten years old's "word" be good enough against the logged report?

atmyage.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:12 pm 
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Not on its own, no. The key thing about an appeal is that you ahve to prove academic ability first and foremost. You can then use any extenuating circumstances to explain the shortfall between the test results and that academic ability but you cannot win an appeal on extenuating circumstances alone.

I would advise you take a deep breath and wait for the results first. You may find he has done better than you think. If he is miles off the required mark (I don't know what area you are from) then obviously there is a bigger mountain to climb in terms of academic ability evidence. The extenuating evidence is more of a "we believe he is academically able as shown by this mountain of evidence and can only think that x incident in the actual test affected his concentration etc and led to a lower than expected score".


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:29 pm 
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Welcome to Appeals! :)

Lots of reading to do.
Start here.

Quote:
Would a 10 ten years old's "word" be good enough against the logged report?
Do you have a copy of a letter or email you sent querying the accuracy of the log?
Could be useful to have something "on the record" for appeal purposes.

However, as KCG has pointed out above, what really matters is the academic evidence.
Quote:
The basis of an appeal against non-qualification should be the overall strength of the alternative academic evidence. You might win an appeal with strong academic evidence but no extenuating circumstances. You cannot win an appeal with extenuating circumstances but insufficient academic evidence.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b11

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:37 pm 
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Thank you Kenyancowgirl and Etienne. I have started to gather the evidence to demonstrate that his score is not reflection of his historical academic results and future potential. Met with HT today who is 100% behind us and confirmed that she and the Primary school will do what we need/supply reports etc. Year 6 teacher has agreed to support us also.

Etienne, I've had the email saying what happened in the exam room, or to be more exact, what didn't happen according to the invigilators report. It's this point that I am trying to understand. My DS recounted the incident (HT was shocked when we told her and agreed that it would certainly affect a 10 year old) but it is not logged.

Hence my question of his word against a log.

Can I also ask for a superselective grammar, what is a good CAT score?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:29 pm 
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Quote:
Etienne, I've had the email saying what happened in the exam room, or to be more exact, what didn't happen according to the invigilators report. It's this point that I am trying to understand. My DS recounted the incident (HT was shocked when we told her and agreed that it would certainly affect a 10 year old) but it is not logged.
Hence my question of his word against a log.
It would be up to your individual panel to decide on the balance of probability, taking into account the email and whatever other evidence is put before them.

Quote:
Can I also ask for a superselective grammar, what is a good CAT score?
I would suggest stanine 9 (very high ability) 127+, but there's no definitive answer. Panel members are completely independent and free to decide for themselves what standard would be appropriate.

atmyage wrote:
Met with HT today who is 100% behind us and confirmed that she and the Primary school will do what we need/supply reports etc. Year 6 teacher has agreed to support us also.
Good! :D

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:33 am 
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Etienne wrote:
Quote:
Etienne, I've had the email saying what happened in the exam room, or to be more exact, what didn't happen according to the invigilators report. It's this point that I am trying to understand. My DS recounted the incident (HT was shocked when we told her and agreed that it would certainly affect a 10 year old) but it is not logged.
Hence my question of his word against a log.
It would be up to your individual panel to decide on the balance of probability, taking into account the email and whatever other evidence is put before them.

Quote:
Can I also ask for a superselective grammar, what is a good CAT score?
I would suggest stanine 9 (very high ability) 127+, but there's no definitive answer. Panel members are completely independent and free to decide for themselves what standard would be appropriate.

atmyage wrote:
Met with HT today who is 100% behind us and confirmed that she and the Primary school will do what we need/supply reports etc. Year 6 teacher has agreed to support us also.
Good! :D


Thank you Etienne,
That's very reassuring to know and DS has scored well in CAT but the year as a whole hasn't and the teacher said they will be repeating the score in spring (i) she thinks another several months will help to raise the average and also the test was done shortly after the Grammar Entrance exam and she is of the view that children have probably recoiled and relaxed a bit as the "main exam" is over.

A lot to think about.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:27 pm 
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Hello Etienne,


Quote:
Would a 10 ten years old's "word" be good enough against the logged report?
Do you have a copy of a letter or email you sent querying the accuracy of the log?
Could be useful to have something "on the record" for appeal purposes.


I have not queried why there is no log of my DS's incident yet. In fact, I have seen the log, and even though the Foundation Office mentioned another incident to me in their email in September, that incident is not recorded either in the log. So how accurate are these logs? I do notice that the log instructions clearly state make note of any issues or problems, however minor. But what if the invigilators did not deem the incident with my DS to be "an issue or a problem" and therefore did not log it.

The incident occurred as I was told of the incident as soon as my DS got into the car after the exam finished.
Etienne, I am sending an email to the Appeals inbox with subject heading "atmyage".

Regards,
atmyage


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:29 pm 
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Hello Etienne,

Do you think Maladministration is the way to go with the appeal? I spoke to the HM who said he would be astonished if we were successful and whilst he had all sympathy, it was not down to him. He would present the case as "school being too full".

It was him who used the word maladministration and hearing him, I felt even more resolved to appeal come March 1st on the grounds of last point in my email.

We have filled in CAF form with the school as first choice, knowing full well we will be rejected.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:43 pm 
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atmyage wrote:
Do you think Maladministration is the way to go with the appeal?
No - I would steer clear of the word "maladministration". In the context of an appeal it would normally mean that the admission authority made a mistake that deprived your son of a place to which he would otherwise have been entitled.

Getting the panel to accept the incident occurred (when the log makes no mention of it) should be - relatively speaking - the easy part!
The hard bit is satisfying the panel that he would have qualified had the incident not occurred. Who can calculate precisely how many marks the incident accounted for?
You yourself have written "I feel strongly the [incident] must have had impact on the score".
Unfortunately feelings do not make for compelling evidence.

The only possible way of trying to prove that he would have qualified but for the incident is by pointing to lots of alternative evidence of very high ability - which is why we've tried to put the focus in this thread on academic evidence.

With regard to the incident, the headteacher will probably say he doesn't know what happened, and will leave it entirely up to the panel to decide how much weight to give it.
He's also unlikely to comment on your academic case, unless asked a specific question.

Unsurprisingly he is saying that he will focus on "school being too full".
You will therefore need good reasons for wanting a place at this particular school in order to counter his case for prejudice.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... -school#c2

Have you investigated the success rate for appeals at this school? It will give a clue as to what you will be up against.
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/general#a39

To sum up, there should be three parts to your case: (1) extenuating circumstances, (2) academic strengths, and (3) reasons for wanting a place.
If you find yourself writing more about extenuating circumstances than about points 2 and 3, it's usually a sure sign of an 'unbalanced' appeal.

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:04 pm 
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Thank you Etienne for a very comprehensive reply. I wasn't sure if "extenuating circumstances" applied in this case, as I wrongly assumed that these terms are to be used for death of family member, illness etc. The more I read, the more I realise that a successful appeal will be very difficult. KenR pointed me to the Governors Report, last year the Foundation had 67 appeals of which 3 were successful. Previous year it was 3 out of 71, so I'm not sure how many were applicable to the school of our choice as there are 5 schools within the Foundation.

Etienne, just out of interest, what about the "breach" of the "policy" or rather the "Do's and Don't" part of the leaflet that was sent prior to the exam. Is there any recourse there? I use the term "breach" loosely but certainly the School did not do what it advised it should do for my DS on that day? Or does it sound desperate on our part?


Regards,
Atmyage


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