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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:51 pm 
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So it looks like we are heading for an appeal. I wondered if anyone has a view on what the basis of our appeal should look like?

Here is my case in lengthy summary.

My dd scored 250+ in her 11 plus exam.
We are OOA (category 4) and in a different LA to Warwickshire.
On 1st March she was offered a place at SGGS.
On 14th March her place was withdrawn due to WCC missing out an unknown number of category 3 applicants.
On 16th March we received two letters from WCC. Etienne, would it be possible to email them to you via the appeals box as I'm not sure whether I should post the content online and I would value your opinion on them which could help with my questions below?

Here are my questions.

1. As we are out of area, does that definitely, 100% mean that we wouldn't have received a place in the first round.
2. Has the AQS now been set at the same score as it would have been if they hadn't made the error in the first place? Or have they just fudged it to withdraw as few places as possible? i.e. would it ordinarily have been set a bit higher? And therefore, could that have meant an offer in the first round?
3. Would knowing the above help my case? (assuming we would ever be told.... unlikely?).
4. On the assumption that I will probably never know the above, what is my case for appeal? Is it that we had a place and it was withdrawn, irrespective of not being entitled to one if they had not made the error (according to WCC)? Maladministration? Or is it simply oversubscription and therefore appeal with my dd's high score? Or a combination of the above? 5. Does the fact that we are OOA weaken our case?

Once I know what the case for appeal is, I can start to gather supporting evidence. I'm just not sure where to begin. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:47 pm 
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Let's keep this thread for Here_goes' case only.

The other thread can be for more general discussion.

Quote:
Etienne, would it be possible to email them to you via the appeals box as I'm not sure whether I should post the content online and I would value your opinion on them which could help with my questions below?
Yes.

Quote:
On the assumption that I will probably never know the above, what is my case for appeal? Is it that we had a place and it was withdrawn, irrespective of not being entitled to one if they had not made the error (according to WCC)? Maladministration? Or is it simply oversubscription and therefore appeal with my dd's high score? Or a combination of the above? 5. Does the fact that we are OOA weaken our case?
Once I know what the case for appeal is, I can start to gather supporting evidence. I'm just not sure where to begin. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I suggest there should be the following parts to your case.

1. The basic facts as you have outlined them:
      Quote:
      My dd scored 250+ in her 11 plus exam.
      We are OOA (category 4) and in a different LA to Warwickshire.
      On 1st March she was offered a place at SGGS.
      On 14th March her place was withdrawn due to WCC missing out an unknown number of category 3 applicants.
      On 16th March we received two letters from WCC


2. A brief paragraph about the extreme distress this has caused. (The only purpose here is to try and win the sympathy of the panel, so it should be written more in sorrow than in anger!)


3. The admission arrangements/legal precedents - I can write a short paragraph for you about this.

        It will have to be worded cautiously because the law isn't entirely clear.
        Moreover, the school - I assume - is the admission authority, and the school has done nothing wrong.
        If the LA that made the mistake had also been the admission authority for the school, it would be easier to raise the question of maladministration - but you're not appealing to the LA. You can only appeal to the admission authority.


4. Your reasons for wanting or needing a place at the school in question. (This will be critical if your case finishes up being compared with others, which would appear a distinct possibility.)
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... -school#c2
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appea ... school#c18

Being OOA doesn't necessarily weaken your case, but you do need other (good) reasons for wanting a place.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:31 pm 
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Quote:
Etienne, would it be possible to email them to you via the appeals box
Letters received - thanks. I can only comment from the Appeals perspective.

The letter dated the 16th is helpful in that it acknowledges the "disappointment", "frustration", and "distress" caused, and supports point 2 of the case I suggested above.

The letter dated the 14th gives a bit more detail, and also emphasises that the school bears no responsibility for what happened.
Nevertheless, it is clear that the school was consulted about whether the place should be withdrawn, so the school was party to the decision.
The LA was probably hoping that the school might agree to go above PAN in these circumstances, and solve the problem - but the more children who were affected by the error, the more difficult it would be for the school to exercise any discretion.

I would be inclined to include both letters in your appeal.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:42 pm 
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Etienne, I don't know who you are, but to me you are a saint. Thank you so much for giving me your time and your advice. I have sent an email with copies of the letters.

Hmm, I see your point about the admissions authority. Yes, you are correct The Governing Body of the Academy Trust is the Admission Authority and as such has formal responsibility for determining admission arrangements..

It shouldn't be hard for us to write about the extreme distress!! Especially as my daughter unwittingly opened the second letter which arrived yesterday, it was addressed to the parent of and then my child's name in bold! Of course, she saw her name and opened the letter. We hadn't mentioned anything to her as we wanted to get to the bottom of it first, she ended up finding out in the worst possible way. It's been unbelievably stressful. But we will definitely err on the sorrowful side - again, that shouldn't be too hard. We're all very emotional about it.

I shall start working this week on why we want/need a place at the school. It is mainly because of her academic abilities that we would like her to go to SGGS. She doesn't have any other particular emotional issues (anxiety/bullying etc). It's more because of her strengths, rather than her weaknesses that we would like her to go to the school. Somewhere that she can be a bit geeky and be accepted for it. Also, somewhere that she can be challenged by her peers. She was like Matilda when she was little, sat with encyclopedias in her bed. She gets frustrated waiting for others in her class to catch up.

I assume that letters from school will be required. Is there any benefit to getting letters from her extra-curricular teachers as well? Music, dance etc? Or do the panel not pay any heed to them?

It's getting late so perhaps we can pick this up again during the week.

Thank you so, so much again.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:00 am 
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Here_ goes. How awful for you all having your daughter find out in such a way. I hope she is doing ok?

Etienne, you are truly wonderful with the help and support you are providing. I hope you don’t mind me using your advice to help me through our appeal, our cases are very similar and the correspondance we have received so far is identical. The difference is we are in area but my daughter is now below the AQS which has been moved up 1 point after the error was made.
We have also been verbally offered a place at AGS, will this affect our position when appealing for SGGS?
I am happy to set up a new thread if you feel it’s more appropriate but didn’t want to overburden you with having to repeat your advice.
Many thanks again


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:02 am 
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Apologies ETienne - have just seen you’ve set me up a thread! Still trying to work my way the forum - thank you again


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:07 am 
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Andypandy wrote:
Etienne, you are truly wonderful with the help and support you are providing. I hope you don’t mind me using your advice to help me through our appeal
You're very welcome.

Quote:
I am happy to set up a new thread if you feel it’s more appropriate
No problem - I've already created it!
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=54062

X-posted with you! :)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:26 am 
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Here_goes wrote:
It shouldn't be hard for us to write about the extreme distress!! Especially as my daughter unwittingly opened the second letter which arrived yesterday
I'm really sorry to hear that - but very useful to be able to put it in your appeal.

Quote:
I shall start working this week on why we want/need a place at the school. It is mainly because of her academic abilities that we would like her to go to SGGS. She doesn't have any other particular emotional issues (anxiety/bullying etc). It's more because of her strengths, rather than her weaknesses that we would like her to go to the school. Somewhere that she can be a bit geeky and be accepted for it. Also, somewhere that she can be challenged by her peers. She was like Matilda when she was little, sat with encyclopedias in her bed. She gets frustrated waiting for others in her class to catch up.
Be careful not to finish up arguing for a grammar school, as opposed to this particular grammar school.
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appea ... school#c10

Quote:
I assume that letters from school will be required.
Not necessarily in your case, because she's qualified.
You've mentioned a "high mark", so I assume you won't be arguing that there is evidence to show that she underperformed on the day, and is even brighter than her score suggests?

What would really help is if the current school would support whatever points you're putting forward:
• how unfair and distressing this has been - if they've noticed she's been upset, could they please say so in writing?
• why this particular grammar school would be the right school for your child.

Might they be willing to write something like "We support wholeheartedly and without the slightest reservation X's appeal for a place at the Y grammar school"?

Quote:
Is there any benefit to getting letters from her extra-curricular teachers as well? Music, dance etc?
No - not unless she has a definite aptitude for something which the school offers and values. (There needs to be a clear link with why this school would best meet her needs.)

Quote:
It's getting late so perhaps we can pick this up again during the week.
Thank you so, so much again.
You're most welcome! :)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:53 am 
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Etienne wrote:
I suggest there should be the following parts to your case.

1. The basic facts as you have outlined them ..... [e.g. score, offer, subsequent letters & dates].

2. A brief paragraph about the extreme distress this has caused. (The only purpose here is to try and win the sympathy of the panel, so it should be written more in sorrow than in anger!)

3. The admission arrangements/legal precedents ........

        It will have to be worded cautiously because the law isn't entirely clear.
        Moreover, the school - I assume - is the admission authority, and the school has done nothing wrong.
        If the LA that made the mistake had also been the admission authority for the school, it would be easier to raise the question of maladministration - but you're not appealing to the LA. You can only appeal to the admission authority.

4. Your reasons for wanting or needing a place at the school in question. (This will be critical if your case finishes up being compared with others, which would appear a distinct possibility.)
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... -school#c2
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appea ... school#c18


Here is my suggestion for point 3

      The School Admissions Code does give admission authorities the right to withdraw a place offered in error, but neither the current Code nor previous versions have been clear about what would be a reasonable period of time within which to withdraw such an offer.
      The one example given in the Codes refers to fraudulent applications only.

      In practice the best known precedents are:

            R v Beatrix Potter School (1997)
            A place was offered in error, and the LA withdrew it the same day. Parents appealed to the High Court on grounds of ‘legitimate expectation’ of a place. High Court refused the appeal (and the place) as the offer was withdrawn the same day.

            Ombudsman complaint 99/C/1876
            Five places were offered. LA withdrew them after three days.
            Ombudsman decided in this case the delay was too long, and amounted to maladminstration. Places confirmed.

      • In view of the fact that our place was not withdrawn until [number] days after the offer was made, we believe we had a reasonable and legitimate expectation of a place.
      • We know that the school was consulted by the LA about the withdrawal of the place, and was therefore a party to the decision. Ultimately, responsibility for deciding whether or not a place should be withdrawn lies with the school as the admission authority.
      • We would therefore respectfully ask the panel to consider, in accordance with paragraph 3.2 of the School Admission Appeals Code (2012), whether the admission arrangements in this case were lawful and correctly applied.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:48 am 
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We would therefore respectfully ask the panel to consider, in accordance with paragraph 3.2 of the School Admission Appeals Code (2012), whether the admission arrangements in this case were lawful and correctly applied"

Sorry I am not good at highlighting the quote above

Whilst 3.2 is of course relevant as it that what the Panel must consider that is not the end of it . The Panel then have to go on to apply 3.5 "Would they child have been offered a place had the admission arrangements been correctly and impartially applied"

The answer here appears to be no as there were children in a higher category/priority under the admission criteria who should have been offered a place before this child.


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