Appealing Fair Consistent and Objective to IAP after SRP

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Guest55
Posts: 16254
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:21 pm

Re: Appealing Fair Consistent and Objective to IAP after SRP

Post by Guest55 »

Most schools will offer guitar lessons ... so that is not a strong reason.

You really need to forget the illness and focus on FCO and academics. It is not the IAPs fault that they could not interpret an incorrectly completed form so I think you have a problem arguing it was not FCO.
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Appealing Fair Consistent and Objective to IAP after SRP

Post by Etienne »

baloo wrote:I think its unfair that we have to provide so much information if we were to submit online than if we were to submit using the paper form.
But did you not receive a copy of the BCC appeals guide with the paper form? Appendix 4c states that you should explain:
    • i. Why you consider the Selection Review was not fair, consistent and objective; and
      ii. Why your child should be qualified for grammar school; and
      iii. Why you want a place at the particular school.
If you didn't receive a copy of the BCC appeals guide, or didn't read the online version, why not follow our advice in Section D of How to appeal for a Bucks GS place 2018 where we clearly set out the questions you need to address?

We even tell you here how you could answer the FCO question.
If I use the paper form and then not answer all the questions then is this going to go against me.
Yes - unless you submit your full case later on.
Will appeals where the online process has been used stand a better chance than those using the paper form?
No - provided those who use the paper form first read the BCC appeals guide.
Do I now need to provide lots of other reasons for wanting a place at this school.
Two strong reasons might be better than a single reason.
Our case is based more on not being FCO and providing academic evidence in support.
No it isn't (or shouldn't be). There are three issues to be considered, and they're all important.
I feel we have a strong case for FCO and academic evidence and if this had been reviewed correctly at SRP, we wouldn't now need to be fighting a case for over subscription as well!
You might think that privately, but you'll be kicking yourself if you win the argument about FCO and academic ability, but fail at the final stage (reasons for wanting a place).
We now have strong academic evidence.. With the writing, I noticed an error between the HTs performance table and the Y4 school report. Indeed was working to GDS in writing in Y4, so this was not a sudden jump. The HT has corrected this in the followup letter. Unfortunately, this error was material to our SRP case. How are these kinds of errors viewed by the IAP?
Difficult to say. They might take the view that the SRP could only consider the evidence they were presented with - and, since this was your evidence, you shouldn't have submitted it without checking it first.
On the other hand, they might take the view that a Bucks primary school head is part of the review system, and it is not fair if the school gave incorrect evidence.
I don't know if this is enough to satisfy an detrimental effects on the school over PAN?
No one can tell you that. We have known cases succeed where the child was in catchment with a sibling - but, if the school puts forward a very strong case for prejudice, or if you have a tough panel, or if there are many other appellants, some of whom have much stronger reasons than yours, then it is less likely that you will succeed at the prejudice stage.
Etienne
baloo
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:45 am

Re: Appealing Fair Consistent and Objective to IAP after SRP

Post by baloo »

Dear Etienne and everyone else who has provided feedback.

I reviewed the BCC appeal guide online and also have reviewed the information on this forum including the links on how to write my appeal letter.

I have started my appeal letter stating that I have not heard the cases for the admissions authority and schools and will provide further evidence prior to and may raise points at the hearing.

I have set out my appeal with 3 sections:
1) Why we are appealing and giving reasons why we think the review process was no FCO for the reaons I have given in earlier discussions.
2) Academic evidence: have provided a new letter from the HT, basically repeating the information given in the HTS originally, making corrections to the errors in the progress chart and explaining the school testing procedure and giving the HT's reasons why suitable for GS. Have also provided letter from Y6 class teacher, a summary with results of SATs mock tests is given under test conditions, where the score for the 2015 Reading SATs was 44/50, 2016 SATs English Reading was 47/50, Maths 2015 Sample Reasoning Paper 35/35 and with average score greater than 95% in practice papers.
3) Reasons for wanting a place, in addition to distance, sibling, have highlighted the GCSE subjects interested in but not available in other schools, opportunities available at the school etc. but have reserved points for the discussion if we get there!

I am a little concerned, do all cases actually get a hearing? I understand Stage 1 is a group hearing. Will all appeals get a stage 2 hearing where they can bring up points on FCO which are pertinent to their case? The reason I ask is, I don't want to put all my points in the initial letter in order to be concise and so that I can bring them up in the hearing. However, If a stage 2 hearing is not guaranteed, then should I be putting all my points across now. I have read in the forums not to completely give your case for FCO as you have not heard the authorities case?

Regards.
Guest55
Posts: 16254
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:21 pm

Re: Appealing Fair Consistent and Objective to IAP after SRP

Post by Guest55 »

I would 'translate' those scores into a format the panel will understand - note that 2015 tests are the 'old style'?
baloo
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:45 am

Re: Appealing Fair Consistent and Objective to IAP after SRP

Post by baloo »

Hi Guest55,
Guest55 wrote:I would 'translate' those scores into a format the panel will understand - note that 2015 tests are the 'old style'?
I don't really really know what the panel will understand, can you or anyone else help with this? What should I be writing in my evidence for these scores?

Regards.
Guest55
Posts: 16254
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:21 pm

Re: Appealing Fair Consistent and Objective to IAP after SRP

Post by Guest55 »

Ask the school to convert the 2015 papers to levels and the later ones to a standardised score. If they were done at school they should have recorded this anyway.
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Appealing Fair Consistent and Objective to IAP after SRP

Post by Etienne »

Guest55 wrote:Ask the school to convert the 2015 papers to levels and the later ones to a standardised score.
I agree - 44/50 means nothing to an appeal panel. It's for the school to explain, not you.
baloo wrote:I am a little concerned, do all cases actually get a hearing?
Your case will definitely go to stage 2.
Etienne
baloo
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:45 am

Re: Appealing Fair Consistent and Objective to IAP after SRP

Post by baloo »

Hi,
Etienne wrote:I agree - 44/50 means nothing to an appeal panel. It's for the school to explain, not you.
is it enough for the teachers letter to say "is clearly indicative of a greater depth understanding.....confidently reads and analyses old level 6 tests......Similarly in maths....top marks in class......fully expect to attain a standardised score of greater than 110..".

As the evidence needs to be in tomorrow (our aim is to submit today!!), i don't think we will have enough time to get a new letter with details of the standardised scores. I can get this information and present it verbally at the hearing. I will aim to get another letter with updated data before the hearing.

Regards.
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Appealing Fair Consistent and Objective to IAP after SRP

Post by Etienne »

is it enough for the teachers letter to say "is clearly indicative of a greater depth understanding..........."
It would be helpful to see clearly that that assertion is supported by each bit of evidence.

Nearer the appeal I think the best thing to do would be to ask the teacher to write a comment on each paper and sign it.
As Guest55 suggests, it would help if they could convert the 2015 papers to levels and the later ones to a standardised score.
If that is too much trouble, could they write "significantly above average" and sign?
Etienne
Guest55
Posts: 16254
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:21 pm

Re: Appealing Fair Consistent and Objective to IAP after SRP

Post by Guest55 »

I can look it up but it would be better if the school signed it as Etienne says.
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