A question about PAN
Moderators: Section Moderators, Forum Moderators
Dear Etienne and Guest 55
I am also not sure whether the school is priortising according to the published admissions arrangements since the arrangements are rather complicated and unclear. I decided to leave this matter because it was so difficult to establish what is correct and what is not. Now considering your discussions so far, I may need to make further enquiries. Unfortunately, I cannot give details here - would it be possible to point me in the right direction?
I would be happy to send you a pm if you feel you could advise on arrangements.
I am also not sure whether the school is priortising according to the published admissions arrangements since the arrangements are rather complicated and unclear. I decided to leave this matter because it was so difficult to establish what is correct and what is not. Now considering your discussions so far, I may need to make further enquiries. Unfortunately, I cannot give details here - would it be possible to point me in the right direction?
I would be happy to send you a pm if you feel you could advise on arrangements.
Sorry, I am here again! Could I ask - what is the best I could hope for if there has been any this case. Would it just be a ticking off for the school, a rehearing of the appeal or would we find that the initial appeal should have ended at stage 1 hence we are allocated a place?
If the answer is either of the first two, I really don't think it is worth persuing since it would create bad feeling between the school and ourselves. Any advice much appreciated.
If the answer is either of the first two, I really don't think it is worth persuing since it would create bad feeling between the school and ourselves. Any advice much appreciated.
Thanks Etienne
I am trying to establish whether it is worth persuing this. I have a number of questions:
Would the grounds for a possible new appeal be the same as the initial hearing, or on the basis that information available now, indicates the panel judged Stage 1 of the previous appeal incorrectly? ie The school was able to admit an other child, therefore the appeal should not have gone to stage 2 so the appeal should have been upheld?
Would the date the school was aware of the vacancy be important here? ie If the school was aware of it only the day after our appeal it would have not appeared to have misled the panel, therefore we have no case.
Or would it be assumed a new child should not have been admitted so soon after our appeal?
Would the fact that the school should not admit over PAN without exceptional circumstance in any case mean that even it is established there had been some wrong doing - a place could not be granted because the school and panel would not be operating in accordance with the admissions code? Or would our circumstances be considered as exceptional ie a place could be offered?
The situation as a lay person is so confusing. It is very difficult to decide whether to leave things as they are, or to persue the matter. If we did persue this and were not offered a place at the school through appeal, we would then presumably have to wait a lot longer on the waiting list. The school could be instructed to work in accordance with the admissions code ie wait until one below PAN before offering places.
I am trying to establish whether it is worth persuing this. I have a number of questions:
Would the grounds for a possible new appeal be the same as the initial hearing, or on the basis that information available now, indicates the panel judged Stage 1 of the previous appeal incorrectly? ie The school was able to admit an other child, therefore the appeal should not have gone to stage 2 so the appeal should have been upheld?
Would the date the school was aware of the vacancy be important here? ie If the school was aware of it only the day after our appeal it would have not appeared to have misled the panel, therefore we have no case.
Or would it be assumed a new child should not have been admitted so soon after our appeal?
Would the fact that the school should not admit over PAN without exceptional circumstance in any case mean that even it is established there had been some wrong doing - a place could not be granted because the school and panel would not be operating in accordance with the admissions code? Or would our circumstances be considered as exceptional ie a place could be offered?
The situation as a lay person is so confusing. It is very difficult to decide whether to leave things as they are, or to persue the matter. If we did persue this and were not offered a place at the school through appeal, we would then presumably have to wait a lot longer on the waiting list. The school could be instructed to work in accordance with the admissions code ie wait until one below PAN before offering places.
Sam
If there were a re-hearing, it would, I think, be a fresh hearing of the whole case in front of a different panel, with the facts as they are now, rather than a review of the previous decision.
If the school knew of the vacancy at the time of the original hearing, their position is even weaker. However, even if they didn't know, the fact that they admitted another child shortly afterwards still shows [assuming there were no exceptional circumstances] that they are effectively working with an Admission Number of PAN+3, and chose to conceal this at stage 1.
If there were to be a re-hearing, the usual "balance of prejudice" would apply - the strength of your case against the prejudice to the school (based now, I hope, on the fact that they are being asked to take one extra pupil rather than a fourth extra pupil).
If you were to complain, it is far from clear what the outcome would be.
If it's an own-admission authority school, they might just decide to offer you a place! (After all, they already appear to be operating above PAN contrary to the Admissions Code.)
Alternatively, you might be offered a re-hearing, either immediately by the school, or after a couple of months following an ombudsman inquiry. Uncertain outcome.
I agree that, if you made a complaint, and if they were to be criticised for operating above PAN, and if you were unsuccessful at a re-hearing, it might make it more difficult for you to get a place from the waiting list.
As I said originally, "This may not be easy" ........
If there were a re-hearing, it would, I think, be a fresh hearing of the whole case in front of a different panel, with the facts as they are now, rather than a review of the previous decision.
If the school knew of the vacancy at the time of the original hearing, their position is even weaker. However, even if they didn't know, the fact that they admitted another child shortly afterwards still shows [assuming there were no exceptional circumstances] that they are effectively working with an Admission Number of PAN+3, and chose to conceal this at stage 1.
If there were to be a re-hearing, the usual "balance of prejudice" would apply - the strength of your case against the prejudice to the school (based now, I hope, on the fact that they are being asked to take one extra pupil rather than a fourth extra pupil).
If you were to complain, it is far from clear what the outcome would be.
If it's an own-admission authority school, they might just decide to offer you a place! (After all, they already appear to be operating above PAN contrary to the Admissions Code.)
Alternatively, you might be offered a re-hearing, either immediately by the school, or after a couple of months following an ombudsman inquiry. Uncertain outcome.
I agree that, if you made a complaint, and if they were to be criticised for operating above PAN, and if you were unsuccessful at a re-hearing, it might make it more difficult for you to get a place from the waiting list.
As I said originally, "This may not be easy" ........
Etienne
Dear Etienne
Thanks for your very clear explanation.
It is an own-admissions authority school, I presume this still doesn't take the risk of losing all away. I don't think I have the courage to face confrontation with the school and may just wait until the next possible appeal. I understand one appeal is allowed per academic year - perhaps it would be better to bring the isssue up then - would it be too late?
Thanks for your very clear explanation.
It is an own-admissions authority school, I presume this still doesn't take the risk of losing all away. I don't think I have the courage to face confrontation with the school and may just wait until the next possible appeal. I understand one appeal is allowed per academic year - perhaps it would be better to bring the isssue up then - would it be too late?
Dear Sam
One appeal per academic year for the same school is correct.
You could raise the issue at stage one in a year's time, and suggest to the panel that you have reason to think the school has, in effect, been operating an Admission Number of PAN+3. The prejudice to the school is therefore not so great, as they are being asked to accept just one extra child, not a fourth extra child!
One appeal per academic year for the same school is correct.
You could raise the issue at stage one in a year's time, and suggest to the panel that you have reason to think the school has, in effect, been operating an Admission Number of PAN+3. The prejudice to the school is therefore not so great, as they are being asked to accept just one extra child, not a fourth extra child!
Etienne
