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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:15 am 
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Just an observation but this seems very strange. If the reason they didn’t have enough rubbers is due to funding then surely it’s cheaper to buy some rubbers than deal with all the appeals that will come their way now. Everyone who didn’t get a rubber should go to appeal and then maybe next year they will have enough rubbers for everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:33 pm
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Blue_Marigold wrote:
Just an observation but this seems very strange. If the reason they didn’t have enough rubbers is due to funding then surely it’s cheaper to buy some rubbers than deal with all the appeals that will come their way now. Everyone who didn’t get a rubber should go to appeal and then maybe next year they will have enough rubbers for everyone.

I doubt it was anything to do with funding. It was probably just an administrative oversight which they are now trying to retrospectively justify as being a deliberate policy.

I'm sure every child will be provided with erasers next year, they will have learned their lesson.


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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:41 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:59 pm
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Blue_Marigold wrote:
Just an observation but this seems very strange. If the reason they didn’t have enough rubbers is due to funding then surely it’s cheaper to buy some rubbers than deal with all the appeals that will come their way now. Everyone who didn’t get a rubber should go to appeal and then maybe next year they will have enough rubbers for everyone.


The irony being that the more people who try and use this as an extenuating circumstance, of course, the more the "impact" will be shown to be watered down and less likely to achieve anything at appeal, except cost a huge amount of money from the education budget, as you say.

I think anotherdad has hit the nail on the head - I suspect, whilst they knew the numbers taking the exam had increased a lot (so much so that they went to 3 settings), whomever is charged with ordering stationery sounds like they didn't get that memo and just ordered the usual amount. A silly oversight that I am sure will not happen for future years.


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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:01 pm
Posts: 9328
Location: Herts
But it is not like ordering rubbers have a long lead time or is restricted to schools. Anyone can buy them.

After they screwed up the first day they could have fixed it for the next day.

They could have sent someone by taxi to buy them DURING the first test.

It is clear that nobody has a job linked to the tests running well. DG


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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:28 pm
Posts: 3
My first post so tolerate me if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick, but just a quick thought after reading this thread through. If the council decide to in some way standardise the scores of ALL children in exam centres without erasers could that lead to appeals from parents of children in centres where there were erasers individually available? Surely only children who requested an eraser in a centre where they were not available were disadvantaged? Some children in centres where erasers were not available did not have the requirement to make use of one. The same will be true of children in centres where erasers were individually available. They may not have used one even though an eraser was available. In their cases the effect of this mess-up by WCC is neutral, but there will be an impact on their score if some form of standardisation is implemented.

As I say, I'm a first-time poster so I may have got this all wrong in my mind, but reading this thread through it seems that standardisation is also a 'solution' that will be fraught with difficulty and open to challenge.


Last edited by AuntieAnnie on Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:02 pm
Posts: 1022
I think you're right that all 'solutions' are imperfect - not real solutions at all. The best that can be done is to make the outcomes as fair as possible, and that means weighing up whether the disadvantage to some children in not having rubbers was so severe that it merits remedying in ways that might then result in some disadvantage to other children instead. I really don't know what the answer is.

As I said before, I think that only a few children will have been significantly disadvantaged by this, and of those children, only a very few indeed will find that disadvantage made the difference between getting a grammar place and not getting a grammar place - most would either be in the position of scoring well enough to get a place anyway, despite the disadvantage, or they would have not been predicted to pass regardless. It is only children and the borderline who may need to take this further.

I suspect that the best route for these children will be an appeal - they will have evidence that they would have expected to pass, or at least were borderline, and that the rubber situation cost them enough on the day to tip them below where they should have been.

Very difficult all round and so easily avoidable by WCC.


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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:28 pm
Posts: 3
Streathammum, you are quite right about there being no ideal solution, and I am astonished that this situation has been allowed to happen. There will, no doubt, be different procedures next year. In borderline cases on appeal the county will be able to dig out the original marked paper to seek evidence of rubbing out. I only hope it doesn't give rise to the substantial withdrawal of offers that seemed to plague the county last year...but I am getting ahead of myself!


Last edited by AuntieAnnie on Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:44 pm
Posts: 101
anotherdad wrote:
Mumofgirls wrote:
anotherdad wrote:
I agree, but of course lots of parents won't see it that way and once this becomes an openly-known concern it will be seized upon by anyone with a disappointing result who was at an affected test centre.


It won’t be seized upon by myself, but I am disappointed for my daughter given the effort she had put in to prepare for the test and the unnecessary distraction this caused her. As such I feel it appropriate to raise my concerns with the council and will most definitely be raising it if an appeal is deemed necessary based on her results, I’m not sure what is wrong with that?

Absolutely nothing, and I'm sorry if it came across differently. My point was more a warning for WCC rather than criticism of parents taking issue with it. I think it's unfair and should be acted upon to ensure equality for all applicants.


Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:44 pm
Posts: 101
Etienne wrote:
kenyancowgirl wrote:
Bearing in mind the usual caveat that no amount of extenuating circumstances on their own, will win an appeal.
Agreed.

There are likely to be three parts to an individual case.

1. It would be a good idea to let the appeal panel have copies of correspondence and any other evidence relating to the incident, and ask them to consider whether the admission arrangements are lawful and have been "correctly and impartially applied" in this case.

2. Secondly, extenuating circumstances. Ask the panel to take into account any impact on your child.

3. Thirdly, academic evidence and the arguments for wanting or needing a place. This would be the main part of any appeal for grammar school entry because of what the 2012 Appeals Code states:
      Quote:
      .... the panel must only uphold the appeal if it is satisfied:
      i) that there is evidence to demonstrate that the child is of the required academic standards, for example, school reports giving Year 5/Year 6 SAT results or a letter of support from their current or previous school clearly indicating why the child is considered to be of grammar school ability; and
      ii) where applicable, that the appellant’s arguments outweigh the admission authority’s case that admission of additional children would cause prejudice.


Very helpful advice thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:49 pm 
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AuntieAnnie wrote:
Streathammum, you are quite right about there being no ideal solution, and I astonished that this situation has been allowed to happen. There will, no doubt, be different procedures next year. In borderline cases on appeal the county will be able to dig out the original marked paper to seek evidence of rubbing out. I only hope it doesn't give rise to the substantial withdrawal of offers that seemed to plague the county last year...but I am getting ahead of myself!



But it’s not just evidence of rubbing out that would prove the impact it had. Another poster mentioned that one boy had his hand up for an entire section so he obviously needed to make corrections but wasn’t able to do so.


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