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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:02 pm 
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Mumofgirls wrote:
AuntieAnnie wrote:
Streathammum, you are quite right about there being no ideal solution, and I astonished that this situation has been allowed to happen. There will, no doubt, be different procedures next year. In borderline cases on appeal the county will be able to dig out the original marked paper to seek evidence of rubbing out. I only hope it doesn't give rise to the substantial withdrawal of offers that seemed to plague the county last year...but I am getting ahead of myself!



But it’s not just evidence of rubbing out that would prove the impact it had. Another poster mentioned that one boy had his hand up for an entire section so he obviously needed to make corrections but wasn’t able to do so.


That's a fair point. Hopefully, the invigilators will be able to support claims in these cases.


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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:13 pm 
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Posts: 27
While the rubber situation is unfortunate, the reality is as follows:

There will not be a second test for any children. This is because there isn't one to use.

Using an old paper for all / some children in a second test is not an option. It would simply cause too many complaints / appeals from parents saying their child had been disadvantaged - by having to sit a second test, they did better in the first test, their friend had already seen the old test paper etc...

It would also be impossible to accurately compare two cohorts if they'd sat different papers. It wouldn't work, and as above, would cause too many complaints / appeals.

The talk of 'class action' is just that - 'talk'. We are not in America and it won't happen. A JR is not going to work - this is because there is an appeals process for parents who think their child should have been offered a place.

No parent will ever be able to prove their child was disadvantaged by the lack of a rubber. It's impossible to say what the outcome would have been if they had one / easier access to one.

What will happen, is that parents will get their results. The fuss will die down until offer day. Parents aware of the issue whose child gets the offer they want will be happy.

Parents aware of the issue, but whose child scored poorly will mostly not appeal.

Parents aware of the issue, whose child scored close to the AQS, will appeal. They'll try and use this issue at appeal. The LA will have the test papers ready for the appeal, and it will be down to the Panel to consider. But as above, the Panel could never say with certainty what impact the lack of a rubber had.

The one interesting issue is what the Committee of Reference makes of the situation. As well as setting the AQS, they consider if the test was carried out appropriately. This will be where things get interesting!

But if they find no issue, which I suspect they will, and a statement is ready for each appeal panel to this effect, it will be very difficult for a panel to challenge.


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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:44 pm
Posts: 49
MadDad1975 wrote:
While the rubber situation is unfortunate, the reality is as follows:

There will not be a second test for any children. This is because there isn't one to use.

Using an old paper for all / some children in a second test is not an option. It would simply cause too many complaints / appeals from parents saying their child had been disadvantaged - by having to sit a second test, they did better in the first test, their friend had already seen the old test paper etc...

It would also be impossible to accurately compare two cohorts if they'd sat different papers. It wouldn't work, and as above, would cause too many complaints / appeals.

The talk of 'class action' is just that - 'talk'. We are not in America and it won't happen. A JR is not going to work - this is because there is an appeals process for parents who think their child should have been offered a place.

No parent will ever be able to prove their child was disadvantaged by the lack of a rubber. It's impossible to say what the outcome would have been if they had one / easier access to one.

What will happen, is that parents will get their results. The fuss will die down until offer day. Parents aware of the issue whose child gets the offer they want will be happy.

Parents aware of the issue, but whose child scored poorly will mostly not appeal.

Parents aware of the issue, whose child scored close to the AQS, will appeal. They'll try and use this issue at appeal. The LA will have the test papers ready for the appeal, and it will be down to the Panel to consider. But as above, the Panel could never say with certainty what impact the lack of a rubber had.

The one interesting issue is what the Committee of Reference makes of the situation. As well as setting the AQS, they consider if the test was carried out appropriately. This will be where things get interesting!

But if they find no issue, which I suspect they will, and a statement is ready for each appeal panel to this effect, it will be very difficult for a panel to challenge.


Apologies for what is probably an obvious question, but how would I get in touch with the Committee of Reference please?


Last edited by Mumofgirls on Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Posts: 27
The blunt answer is there is no mechanism for getting in touch with the COR. This is because its role does not include engaging with / considering contributions from parents.


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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:43 am 
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MadDad1975 wrote:
The blunt answer is there is no mechanism for getting in touch with the COR. This is because its role does not include engaging with / considering contributions from parents.


Ok thank you, that’s disappointing to hear.


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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:52 am 
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MadDad1975 wrote:
The blunt answer is there is no mechanism for getting in touch with the COR. This is because its role does not include engaging with / considering contributions from parents.

Who or what is the Committee of Reference? Your posts have an authoritative tone about them - do you have inside information or are you expressing an opinion?


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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:12 pm
Posts: 27
The Committee of Reference is mentioned in the grammar school's admission arrangments - it's part of the Local Review process detailed in the Appeals.Code.

The admission arrangments talk about the COR reviewing arrangments for children with SEN / requiring extra time. They also mention 'Terms of Reference'. It could be worth asking Warwickshire for a copy of these and the minutes from previous meetings to understand what exactly the COR looks at. This shouldn't change unless the TOR have.

If the COR has considered issues raised about testing arrangments in previous years - then it should do so again. Unless of course the TOR have changed.


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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:06 am 
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Can anyone confirm if the children sitting the test in LSS Sixth Form Centre on the SUNDAY 9th had a rubber each?


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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:47 pm 
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forumvisit wrote:
Can anyone confirm if the children sitting the test in LSS Sixth Form Centre on the SUNDAY 9th had a rubber each?


Sorry I’ve no idea. Well all my further emails have been ignored by the council. Guess they’re waiting to see if I appeal now given it’s results next week? So disappointed in how they’ve handled this.


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 Post subject: Re: Stationery
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Posts: 9
Has anybody had any further response from WCC about the rubber situation and how do you all feel following the results. Post results here with catchment and boy or girl if you will.


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