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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:43 am 
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Something I've always wondered...

How do schools manage the combination of appeals and waiting lists in relation to the PAN? Would a successful appeal always result in a PAN +1 for the school or could the school redress the PAN by not offering places to the waiting list if a place is subsequently not taken?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:23 am 
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RedPanda wrote:
Something I've always wondered...

How do schools manage the combination of appeals and waiting lists in relation to the PAN? Would a successful appeal always result in a PAN +1 for the school or could the school redress the PAN by not offering places to the waiting list if a place is subsequently not taken?


Schools must not turn down an applicant (in the case of a grammar school, a qualified applicant), if a place is available. If there is a waiting list, the school cannot stop offering places just because there are appeals coming up. So yes, successful appeals will take the year group to 'PAN plus x' .

However, once the school is in that position, it does not need to admit any more from the waiting list unless / until the numbers fall back to 'PAN minus 1'.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:50 am 
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Thanks ToadMum.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:48 pm 
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Another thing to consider is where on the 'pecking order' the school is and when the appeals are held in relation to other grammar schools in the area.

Imagine two schools - A (top grammar) and B (not quite so prestigious). Both are at PAN.

School B holds its appeals and the panel decides that 8 children should have had a place but prejudice against the school meant that only 4 could actually win the appeals. The school is therefore forced to take another 4 pupils. Now at PAN+4, so can't make any more offers to those on the waiting list.

The following week, School A holds appeals, and is forced to take 8 more pupils (which it wanted anyway to keep numbers). Of those 8, 6 already had a place at School B. School B is now 2 under PAN and will offer to the top 2 from the waiting list. Even though B's appeals panel thought that there were 4 other children who should have had a place if there was less prejudice against the school - those 4 children were not bumped to the top of the waiting list.

Come the start of the next school term, some children who were due to go to school A don't turn up as the parents used the offer to boost scholarship applications for private schools. School A ends up offering more places from their waiting list, therefore school B does the same but then has run out of children who had passed. School B ends up undersubscribed and can not offer places to those not deemed suitable.

Now imagine a lot more schools in the equation, and you realise that admissions are an awfully complex issue.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:54 pm 
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NancyB wrote:
Come the start of the next school term, some children who were due to go to school A don't turn up as the parents used the offer to boost scholarship applications for private schools. l


Does this actually happen or is it an urban myth? I have never heard of one actual person doing it, but it is often mentioned on here. The only person I know who thought about it ended up with a child who did not qualify in the 11+ but managed a fat scholarship anyway.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:10 pm 
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Amber wrote:
NancyB wrote:
Come the start of the next school term, some children who were due to go to school A don't turn up as the parents used the offer to boost scholarship applications for private schools. l


Does this actually happen or is it an urban myth? I have never heard of one actual person doing it, but it is often mentioned on here. The only person I know who thought about it ended up with a child who did not qualify in the 11+ but managed a fat scholarship anyway.


I know of someone who is trying it this year... time will tell


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:42 pm 
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Does the private school ask for evidence of grammar school offers?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:57 am 
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bridge wrote:
Does the private school ask for evidence of grammar school offers?

Sounds like you have a devious plan in mind, bridge :)

I can't speak for all private schools but our closest one uses their own entrance exam as the primary measure of academic ability to shortlist the scholarship candidates for external applicants. Given there is an interview with the headmaster involved later, then I'd assume that mentioning (and presumably proving) a high score in an 11+ elsewhere would be in the interests of the parent. In the same way mentioning (and presumably proving) level 3 attainment at KS1, current teacher assessments, etc., if the child was coming from a state primary.

Where it breaks down for our local private schools, is that they play second fiddle to the state Grammar School so all the high scoring 11+ candidates are unlikely to apply to them anyway. We are not in an area that has many Grammar Schools so it may be different in other parts of the country.


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