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 Post subject: 12 plus appeal
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:43 am
Posts: 26
Hi forum moderators and members,

Firstly, thank you for being of immense help to the forum members.

Having failed to gain a place for September 2017 entry at a girls grammar due to oversubscription and a failed appeal, my DD started at the local comp and is in top sets. She sat the 12 plus, in year test for year 8 in October 2018 and was not given a place saying high scores were required.

I sent in a notice to appeal and received the school papers. I was excited to note that my DD has achieved the highest mean mark of 51%.

The papers say:
30 students sat tests. Two places were offered to the students who achieved the highest mean mark overall. The highest mean mark was 51%. There were only two places available. Four students achieved 51%. In accordance with the admissions policy criteria, students living nearest to the school were offered places first. My DD (name) achieved a mean mark of 51%

The governors would like to register DD should not be awarded a place on the following grounds:
A) admission of DD would be incompatible with selection under the admission arrangements and it would be unfair to the girls who have priority over DD or those equal to her.
B) to admit DD and all the girls who have priority or who are equal to her would prejudice the provision of efficient education or the efficient use of resources.

My questions:
1. Is this a case of academic ability or oversubscription- since she has achieved 51%, do I still provide ks1, ks2, 11 plus and year 7 reports.
2. While the school says children living closer to the school were given places, this admission policy is not available online or notified while registering for exams. The email sent with the test details said- places will be offered strictly according to the rank order based upon the overall performance of the applicants. Do I raise this point to the panel? If so, what exactly can I say
3. While it says the highest mean mark was 51%, 4 students achieved 51% and DD achieved 51%, I am confused as to how 4 students can get the same mark. How could they be ranked? If my DD was ranked 4/30 having scored the mean mark of of 51%, how can the highest mean mark be 51%.
4. Extenuating circumstances: DD was diagnosed with shingles on 28/9/2018, suffered quite a lot with painful rash, fever and headache, given strong antibiotics for a week. While I did sign that she was fit to sit the test on 9/10/2018, she was very ill prior to the test and did not prepare well for the test. I have a doctors report on her illness and medication. Can I say that if not for the illness and medication preceding the test, she could have scored higher.
5. The test date was notified to me just one week before the test during the time of DD’s illness. Can I use this to say if the notification period was longer, she could have been better prepared.
6. DS will be starting at the boys grammar in 2019, can I use this as reason for siblings getting an equally good education and travelling together.
7. While DD is in top sets for most subjects, her end of year 7 report says she gets easily distracted, must focus more talk less :lol: . Can I use this to say she’s bright, but can go with flock and do just what the others do. Being in a grammar school would mean less distraction and more focus and better academic achievement.

Having gone through the appeals process last year, it was very stressful and proved fruitless. This time around, DD has missed a place despite scoring the same high mean mark as the other 3 girls. I have stronger evidence, but am still worried.

Please let me know your thoughts on my questions, and how to maximise my chances at the appeal. I look forward to hearing from you. My hearing is on 6th December and must send my papers by Saturday at the latest. I receive the school papers only today though.

Thank you ever so much.

Sarmum


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 Post subject: Re: 12 plus appeal
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:34 pm 
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Posts: 1567
I'm sure you will get good advice from people with more experience than me but well done to your dd; it sounds as though she's done really well.
I definitely would not mention that you think she'll benefit from a selective school because she's less likely to get distracted - I don't think there's any evidence of that. They might wonder why, when you think your child should be at a grammar school, you think it will be full of girls who are more focused than her!


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 Post subject: Re: 12 plus appeal
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7874
Sarmum wrote:
1. Is this a case of academic ability or oversubscription- since she has achieved 51%, do I still provide ks1, ks2, 11 plus and year 7 reports.
Have you seen the Q&As?
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appea ... ication#b1
      Quote:
      b. This section might also be relevant if the 11+ score was one of the admission criteria, and the score achieved was not high enough to gain a place. If you have sufficient evidence of academic ability – and possibly of extenuating circumstances too – then, in addition to any arguments dealing with the oversubscription part of the appeal, you may wish to argue that your child was expected to perform even more highly in the 11+ than he/she did.
      Quote:
      It is entirely up to you – depending on the circumstances and on what evidence you have – to decide what sort of case you wish to put forward. (And it is entirely up to the panel as to what arguments they will be receptive to!)

Quote:
..... ks1, ks2, 11 plus and year 7 reports.
Even if academic evidence is part of your case, I wouldn't include all these reports for a Y8 appeal.
A Y7 report, yes. Perhaps the Y6 report as well.

Quote:
2. While the school says children living closer to the school were given places, this admission policy is not available online or notified while registering for exams. The email sent with the test details said- places will be offered strictly according to the rank order based upon the overall performance of the applicants. Do I raise this point to the panel? If so, what exactly can I say
The admission arrangements ought to be published on the LA website. If you can't find them, I suggest you ask the school or LA for a copy now. Don't leave it until the hearing.

Quote:
3. While it says the highest mean mark was 51%, 4 students achieved 51% and DD achieved 51%, I am confused as to how 4 students can get the same mark. How could they be ranked? If my DD was ranked 4/30 having scored the mean mark of of 51%, how can the highest mean mark be 51%.
You will have to ask.

Quote:
4. Extenuating circumstances: DD was diagnosed with shingles on 28/9/2018, suffered quite a lot with painful rash, fever and headache, given strong antibiotics for a week. While I did sign that she was fit to sit the test on 9/10/2018, she was very ill prior to the test and did not prepare well for the test. I have a doctors report on her illness and medication. Can I say that if not for the illness and medication preceding the test, she could have scored higher.
Sorry to hear about the shingles, but if you signed that she was fit to sit the test, I'm afraid that focusing on illness before the test as part of your case may not go down well.
Best to wait and see if they ask why you think she underperformed on the day. Then - very reluctantly - you could try arguing that, although she was fit to take the test, she was not at her best because of her recent painful illness. I suggest you have 7 copies of the medical evidence with you, but don't hand it over unless the panel want to see it.

Quote:
5. The test date was notified to me just one week before the test during the time of DD’s illness. Can I use this to say if the notification period was longer, she could have been better prepared.
What preparation does the school say is needed for the test? They will probably counter that it is meant to be a test of innate ability.

Quote:
6. DS will be starting at the boys grammar in 2019, can I use this as reason for siblings getting an equally good education and travelling together.
7. While DD is in top sets for most subjects, her end of year 7 report says she gets easily distracted, must focus more talk less :lol: . Can I use this to say she’s bright, but can go with flock and do just what the others do. Being in a grammar school would mean less distraction and more focus and better academic achievement.
To be honest, I doubt that either argument would carry any weight.
Sorry not to be more encouraging with regard to these particular points, but I wouldn't want to mislead you.

Just my view. No one can be sure what a particular panel might think.

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: 12 plus appeal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:22 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:43 am
Posts: 26
Thank you Loobylou and Etienne for your replies. The admission criteria is available from the school website, which I have printed off.

For in year admissions, places are offered strictly on rank order. There is no reference to proximity to school. The question is how was DD ranked out of the four girls. Should I ask the school for this information now or at the appea?

It complicates things, as the school’s case say that the highest mean mark was 51%, four girls achieved 51% and DD achieved 51%. Was there a tie, because of which places were offered to girls nearest to then school. How can all four girls achieve the same mark.

The email I received soon after the results says, the standard was high and DD cannot be offered a place at this time.

Thank you


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 Post subject: Re: 12 plus appeal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7874
Sarmum wrote:
The question is how was DD ranked out of the four girls. Should I ask the school for this information now or at the appeal?
Would you like to send us a link to where you found the admission rules?
If so, please email us using the subject heading "from Sarmum - for information only".
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=9907&p=108023#p108023

Otherwise I suggest you write to the school and put your question to them now.

The Admissions Code states:
      Quote:
      1.8 Admission arrangements must include an effective, clear and fair tie-breaker to decide between two applications that cannot otherwise be separated.

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: 12 plus appeal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:33 pm 
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Posts: 26
Thank you Etienne,

I have sent the email with the necessary links.
Please check and let me know your thoughts.

Thanks again


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 Post subject: Re: 12 plus appeal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7874
Thanks. I've had a look at the school's website to check the published arrangements.
I find them confusing! :?

The second section is clearly headed "In Year Admissions Procedure".

Therefore one might have expected the first section to be headed "Year 7 Admissions Procedure" - but it isn't!
The heading is more general: "Admission criteria and arrangements for entry 2019". It contains admission rules for Y7, but also what appear to be more general rules such as no. 11 (right of appeal), which clearly cannot be restricted to Y7.
Similarly, rule 10 (fraud) must surely apply to everyone, not just Y7.

I suspect the school will argue that rule 9 (the tie break) applies to the second section as well as to Y7 admissions.
If so, it rather begs the question: why wasn't it quoted in the paperwork sent to you?

Although the panel do have a duty to consider the admission arrangements, and whether or not they comply with the Admissions Code (see the reference to para. 1.8 of the Code in my previous post), unfortunately none of this will directly affect your appeal unless there is evidence that you have actually been deprived of a place that would otherwise have been yours.

• What I suggest you do at the hearing is to ask for clarification about the admission rules for In Year entry, drawing attention to para. 1.8 of the Code (the need for a tie breaker, which is not mentioned in the paperwork sent to you).
• If proximity to the school was used, ask for your daughter's distance, and for the distances of the other girls with the same score (but not their names, which wouldn't be permitted). Without this information, I don't see how the panel - and you - can be reassured that the admission arrangements appear to have been correctly applied.

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: 12 plus appeal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:02 pm
Posts: 929
Hi Sarmum

I'm not an expert on appeals but wonder why you've asked a couple of times how four children can get the same score. Why don't you think they can have the same score?

These appear to be raw scores, not standardised scores (which is as you'd expect with such a small cohort) so there doesn't seem to be any reason why four children couldn't have got the same outcome. You may think it's unlikely but if everyone got stuck on the same few questions perhaps it's not as unusual as you might expect.


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 Post subject: Re: 12 plus appeal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:43 am
Posts: 26
Hi Etienne,

Thank you for looking at the admission arrangements. If you find it confusing, imagine my plight. You have given some invaluable input as to what to ask the admission
Authority. I will use every information given at the hearing. It’s amazing to have the knowledge of experts like you in helping my case. I can’t thank you enough.

Streathammum, I still find it hard to believe four students can get the same raw mark. It will keep me puzzled forever.

Thank you


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 Post subject: Re: 12 plus appeal
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:43 am
Posts: 26
Hi Etienne and forum members,

I received DD’s current report from school.

- Scale score of 111- making her a ks2 higher ability student-top 25% of her year group
- Set 1 for maths and English and Set 2 for science - higher sets approx 25-30 students
- Currently receiving secure in the 3 subjects, working to a proposed forecast of a GCSE 5 and above.
- With her scales score, should be working towards Excelling end of year 8
- Current effort grades are good, but with her potential ability, should be working towards outstanding which will help meet excelling target.

Can you please advise if I should use this information to in my appeal? Does it sound good enough? Should I not use it as she has scored the highest mean mark anyway?

Thank you


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