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 Post subject: Re: Letter with decision
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:19 pm 
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Quote:
I am just starting to finalise my next appeal and have noticed that in the appeal documents it seems that the panel have been given my CAF listings. Is this allowed?
Yes, it is allowed for appeal purposes.

However, we have come across some schools (a Kent grammar, and one of the North London schools) where the CAF information has not been in the appeals paperwork, but has been given privately to the panel without the knowledge of appellants. This is a breach of the Appeals Code because all parties to an appeal must be given exactly the same information.


See also:
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/general#a21

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 Post subject: Re: Letter with decision
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:17 am 
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Well fancy that. We ranked our appealed school first so that wouldn't have gone against us but they did ask why we hadn't applied to an obvious alternative.

Thank you for clarifying that the confidentiality applies to the main admissions round and not to appeals. It's very clear why that information must not be taken into account by individual schools, but I can see why it would be useful later.


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 Post subject: Re: Letter with decision
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:43 pm 
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Etienne wrote:
Quote:
I am just starting to finalise my next appeal and have noticed that in the appeal documents it seems that the panel have been given my CAF listings. Is this allowed?
Yes, it is allowed for appeal purposes.

However, we have come across some schools (a Kent grammar, and one of the North London schools) where the CAF information has not been in the appeals paperwork, but has been given privately to the panel without the knowledge of appellants. This is a breach of the Appeals Code because all parties to an appeal must be given exactly the same information.


See also:
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/general#a21


The only possible excuse for not including the CAF / mid year form and outcome letter in the parents' packs would be that the parent knows which schools they named, in what order and what school they were allocated.

Without the CAF, the panel has less chance of being able to assess properly whether the admissions policy was applied correctly in a given case.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:43 am 
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Regarding the SRP we challenged this in our last appeal and I was told by the panel that 'we are not here to discuss that so I will stop you there. Is this allowed?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:33 am 
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MCon2019 wrote:
Regarding the SRP we challenged this in our last appeal and I was told by the panel that 'we are not here to discuss that so I will stop you there. Is this allowed?
Was this at stage one or stage two?
If it was stage two, and what they meant was that the generic aspects of FCO should have been questioned at the group hearing, and that they were now looking at your individual case, this is correct.

It would also be correct to say that the panel cannot take an overall decision on whether the reviews as a whole were FCO - they can only look at individual cases.
However, we explain in the Bucks sticky D4 (xii) that you might be able to argue that some of the generic points are applicable to your individual case:
      Quote:
      • Non-generic (personal) questions should be raised at your individual hearing. It is also worth reminding the panel very briefly - ideally in your summing up - of any generic arguments you think apply to your specific case.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:30 pm 
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Thank you Etienne.

Yes this was in our Stage 2 (which was a non suprising no!). Several people tried to challenge the SRP in the first stage and it eventually came to the point where the panel refused to take any questions on the subject and about 20+ parents walked out in disgust.

In Stage 2 i tried to bring this up as we are very concerned about the unfairness of this system which has allowed my daughter not to get a place and her non passing friend who is also out of county get a place instead. For us it was the impact that has on our daughter but they were not interested.

We are struggling as there doesn't seem to be a place to complain against what a lot of people see as an unjust system. Its too late for my child who has now fallen through the cracks, but complaining may help the system to be changed (or probably not as the case more than likely will be!). Am i correct in thinking our only approach is to go lodge a complaint with the Ombudsman?

Thanks x


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:54 pm 
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Quote:
Yes this was in our Stage 2 (which was a non suprising no!)

Could I just check - what reason was given for turning down this appeal?
Was it the FCO issue?

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 Post subject: Re: Letter with decision
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:14 pm 
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The decision stated that my daughters 'past problems ( bullying) made for uncomfortable reading but have not stood in the way of her academic success ( by passing with a high score). However the schools case is a strong one and the IAP does not find the prejudice to .. outweighs that to the school'.
It goes on to say we should contact our local authority to see about availability of places at alternative schools!

I have my next Appeal tomorrow and feel like it's all a waste of time. My first appeal said it's ok you have a catholic school/ this one she was bullied but did really well but still can't give us a place!
Thanks Etienne.


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 Post subject: Re: Letter with decision
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:18 am 
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Etienne
Sorry for all these questions! I have just had my last stage 2 appeal today and am confused about a few things-
One lady on the panel stated that these places are for Bucks children not for Slough children- I believed the panel were supposed to be unbiased and that the appeals code states that they can not discriminate against out of catchment children once they have gone through their admissions criteria. Have I got this wrong?
I am gobsmacked and outraged at our treatment. Is this allowed? My husband even said is there any point ya being here then? I did think we would have a hard case but a fair playing field. Maybe I was being over optimistic that at some point the merit of our case would win out.
Thanks x


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 Post subject: Re: Letter with decision
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:06 pm 
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MCon2019 wrote:
The decision stated ...... the schools case is a strong one and the IAP does not find the prejudice to .. outweighs that to the school'.
I was very concerned to see your report that many parents walked out of stage one because they were not allowed to ask questions about FCO - but if FCO was not an issue in your own case, I think it is for those who were directly affected to make a complaint.

Quote:
It goes on to say we should contact our local authority to see about availability of places at alternative schools!
I don't think it was aimed at you in any personal sense - it's a standard line that is often included in decision letters all over the country. Some parents find themselves without a school place after unsuccessful appeals, and it's a reminder to everyone who might be in this situation that the home LA has a legal duty to help.

Quote:
One lady on the panel stated that these places are for Bucks children not for Slough children- I believed the panel were supposed to be unbiased and that the appeals code states that they can not discriminate against out of catchment children once they have gone through their admissions criteria. Have I got this wrong?
You're right (although the source is the Greenwich judgement):
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appea ... -school#c9

If "these places are for Bucks children not for Slough children" were the words used, then it is very concerning.
It would be worth finding out how this has been recorded in the clerk's notes.
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/ombudsman#d4
I suggest you ask for a copy. The Appeals Team at Bucks are very good at responding to such requests.

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