11 Plus Exams Forum

Hi All

Chins Up!

Does anyone know the difference between non qualification and over subscription in regards to appealing - are there two different sets of appeals?!.

Obviously, non qualification obviously means that the child didn't score high enough.

But does over subscription mean that the child did achieve the pass score but so did lots of other children and then subsequently the child is turned down for a place?

Confused!

As far as I understand they are indeed two types of appeal. All of the appeals against non-qualification have mostly been heard by now, certainly where I am in Bucks. As to appeals against non-selection for school places that depends on the individual schools and their admissions policies. I would guess there's probably a lot of those type of appeals still to be heard since allocation day was last week. Hope this helps

Over subscription means too many children met the required standard for the places available.
Then the schools selection criteria goes into play.

Looked after children.
Medical grounds
Siblings (some counties have abolished this rule.)
Distance.

Other schools award places on highest scores.

If you are appealing for over subscription you will have either:
Passed that schools selective tests or have been deemed suitable for grammar school via an appeals panel.

AM

Thanks for replies.


If a school is already over subscribed, why do we still have the option to appeal?

I've been adviced that in Birmingham Last year there was 165 appeals and only 4 suceeded. Do you think we are given false hope - How can we be given a place for our child that doesn't exsist, no matter how deserving or needed the child is?!

Feeling a bit deflated!

lottie wrote:If a school is already over subscribed, why do we still have the option to appeal?

I've been adviced that in Birmingham Last year there was 165 appeals and only 4 suceeded. Do you think we are given false hope - How can we be given a place for our child that doesn't exsist, no matter how deserving or needed the child is?!

Depends. It may be oversubscribed according to the Published Admissions Number (PAN) - which would usually allow 30 children per class * (say) 5 classes = 150 intake. Now each classroom might have 31 or 32 desks in it (do your homework to check), so they can actually take another 2 * classes pupils.

After the appeals, some schools will offer these spare places. The appeals effectively jump over the top of the waiting list, BUT they have been proved by the parents to have extenuating circumstances for needing that place.

Thanks for reply - I seem to learn something new everyday - a lot of help from Ken R!

I've just found out today that the Head Teacher form the KE school will be at the appeal, arguing the schools case.

How Scary is that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep telling myself to chill (imagine them naked and all that..!! )

lottie wrote: Keep telling myself to chill (imagine them naked and all that..!! )

So is that why parents stare at me during the appeal? Ergh!

That's interesting (the bit about the head teacher being at the appeal I'll remember the other suggestion if I ever have to go to appeal myself )

It made me wonder how often head teachers attend overqualification appeals to oppose the applicant. What happens if the head of the school is actually sympathetic to your case, and feels that your child - as a sibling of one of their own pupils - should have been given a place, but has fallen foul of a change in LEA rules over which the school has no control (assuming it isn't a foundation or VA school)? In other words, do they still have to attend the appeal because they are expected to? Or can they take a neutral stance by refraining from opposing the appeal in person?

Imagine the scenario - parent goes to appeal for younger child for a place at elder child's school and must face the head from said school. Someone they probably know and have talked to in the past at school events, or possibly even collaborated with on extra-curricular projects. This would surely place both parties in a difficult position?

Marylou wrote:It made me wonder how often head teachers attend overqualification appeals to oppose the applicant. What happens if the head of the school is actually sympathetic to your case, and feels that your child - as a sibling of one of their own pupils - should have been given a place, but has fallen foul of a change in LEA rules over which the school has no control (assuming it isn't a foundation or VA school)? In other words, do they still have to attend the appeal because they are expected to? Or can they take a neutral stance by refraining from opposing the appeal in person?

Imagine the scenario - parent goes to appeal for younger child for a place at elder child's school and must face the head from said school. Someone they probably know and have talked to in the past at school events, or possibly even collaborated with on extra-curricular projects. This would surely place both parties in a difficult position?

It shouldn't be a 'personal' thing on the head's side. At our panel, it's the schools admissions officer who represents the school, and I know that she's quite friendly with some of the parents, often telling them to appeal! And the schools side of the argument is the same for each child appealing - that the school is full.

If you know that they can fit more in, then it's down to you to get them to admit that, and it should be easy if it's blindingly obvious. But what you're then up against is telling the panel why it should be your child over and above the other appeals.

capers123 wrote:

If you know that they can fit more in, then it's down to you to get them to admit that, and it should be easy if it's blindingly obvious. But what you're then up against is telling the panel why it should be your child over and above the other appeals.

Thanks for clarifying that, Capers. So you need to find something that makes your application stand out. Would an appeal panel be sympathetic to an argument based on sibling connection, provided said older sibling has every intention of remaining at the school when the younger one joins? And could the school be asked to provide evidence that the older child is going to be still at the school (6th form offer, predicted GCSE grades) despite the fact that this would count against their own side of the appeal as far as the younger child is concerned?