Appeal with unsuccessful SR

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KS13
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:35 pm

Re: Appeal with unsuccessful SR

Post by KS13 »

Thanks for your prompt reply.
I understand last date of appeal submission is 27th March
I can wait till 26th and can submit if nil updates ?
And then submit with evidence to follow?

I am really sorry if I am really asking irrelevant questions,just not sure with system and more anxious with unsuccessful SR however do want to give a try .Thanks!!
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Appeal with unsuccessful SR

Post by Etienne »

KS13 wrote:I understand last date of appeal submission is 27th March
I can wait till 26th and can submit if nil updates ?
In Bucks, yes, 12 noon on the 27th.
I would have thought you could submit it any time next week. Your case is unlikely to change in the next few days.
When I said "Wait and see ....," I should have been clearer. I meant it to refer to what comes after 27th March.
..... with evidence to follow?
Yes, Bucks normally ask that any updates be sent in 10 school days before the appeal starts.
Appeals would normally start at the beginning of May, but might be much later this year because of coronavirus.
I am really sorry if I am really asking irrelevant questions,just not sure with system and more anxious with unsuccessful SR however do want to give a try .Thanks!!
No problem. :)
Etienne
KS13
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:35 pm

Re: Appeal with unsuccessful SR

Post by KS13 »

Dear staff,
Please need help with your expertise knowledge with some questions posted by appeal team and i need to provide answers.As you are aware about my case ,I did apply for SR and it was unsuccessful and now applied for appeal.Questions are sent by email .Many Thanks for all your support .
questions I am struggling with-

-Child’s results over time are consistently at the ‘expected level’ in Reading and Writing and ‘at greater depth’ in Mathematics. Broadly the same profile has emerged in his Secondary School Selection Test score. Based on this evidence why do you feel that the Selection Review Panel’s view of Child's test score was not fair, consistent and objective?


-Given the above results why do you think that child will be able to cope with a grammar school education?




-What does Burnham Grammar School offer Child that Desborough School does not?
KS13
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:35 pm

Re: Appeal with unsuccessful SR

Post by KS13 »

Dear staff,
Please need help with your expertise knowledge with some questions posted by appeal team and i need to provide answers.As you are aware about my case ,I did apply for SR and it was unsuccessful and now applied for appeal.Questions are sent by email .Many Thanks for all your support .
questions I am struggling with-

-Child’s results over time are consistently at the ‘expected level’ in Reading and Writing and ‘at greater depth’ in Mathematics. Broadly the same profile has emerged in his Secondary School Selection Test score. Based on this evidence why do you feel that the Selection Review Panel’s view of Child's test score was not fair, consistent and objective?


-Given the above results why do you think that child will be able to cope with a grammar school education?




-What does Burnham Grammar School offer Child that Desborough School does not?
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Appeal with unsuccessful SR

Post by Etienne »

KS13 wrote:-Child’s results over time are consistently at the ‘expected level’ in Reading and Writing and ‘at greater depth’ in Mathematics. Broadly the same profile has emerged in his Secondary School Selection Test score. Based on this evidence why do you feel that the Selection Review Panel’s view of Child's test score was not fair, consistent and objective?
-Given the above results why do you think that child will be able to cope with a grammar school education?
This is why I wrote earlier on:
    • Ideally what you want is a letter from the headteacher saying that his reading and writing have both improved since November ....... Wait and see whether there is any opportunity to ask if the headteacher can help.
-What does Burnham Grammar School offer Child that Desborough School does not?
I don't think you've discussed your reasons in this thread before, but it should be the third part of your case (after FCO and academic ability):
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... -school#c2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whatever your reasons are (and only you can say), the panel are just checking whether there's a good argument for wanting or needing a place at Burnham GS rather than the allocated school.
Etienne
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Appeal with unsuccessful SR

Post by Etienne »

why do you feel that the Selection Review Panel’s view of Child's test score was not fair, consistent and objective?
Sorry - re-reading my last post, I see that I had completely missed this bit.
The appeal panel are talking specifically about the review, so while any new evidence might well help your academic case for appeal, it couldn't have been considered by the review panel.

When we last discussed FCO, we hadn't seen the school case, and anyway I thought it best to leave any specific arguments to the hearing.
I'm still in the dark as to what is in the school case, but could you look through the Bucks sticky https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum ... 12&t=60296" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and say whether you think any of the points in section D4 applies to you?

I'm thinking of a possible argument along the lines:
"I am not querying the SRP's view of the academic evidence available at the time.
With respect, the issue is whether the process being followed was FCO.
For example .........

With regard to grammar school suitability, if the admission authority has not proved that the review process was FCO, then the IAP is free to take into account the following academic evidence that was not available to the SRP ......
" [if you have it!].
Etienne
KS13
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:35 pm

Re: Appeal with unsuccessful SR

Post by KS13 »

Dear Etienne, Many thanks for help again and I am really sorry for putting in short that as you know the case .I should have put more details .Its just been mad with work stress and I tried to write quickly in short .

**Quote:Ideally what you want is a letter from the headteacher saying that his reading and writing have both improved since November ....... Wait and see whether there is any opportunity to ask if the headteacher can help.

Apologies,I didn't update you before ,I did manage to get letter from Headteacher which was submitted as additional evidence.
Headteacher really provided very detailed positive report and has mentioned that son has progressed well in English-I will get some points from letter to answer first question.

**Whatever your reasons are (and only you can say), the panel are just checking whether there's a good argument for wanting or needing a place at Burnham GS rather than the allocated school.

-One of reasons I did put on main appeal that this is the only maintained secondary school at walking distance and there is no other sec school at short distance in our area.
I m not sure what to add in comparison with the sec school he got place in place.

**I don't think you've discussed your reasons in this thread before, but it should be the third part of your case (after FCO and academic ability):
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... -school#c2

I did put some points earlier were advised -With due respect to Selection Review process, I would respectfully point out the para.3.13b of the Appeals Code puts the ones on the admission authority to prove its case for ‘fair, consistent and objective ‘,not on parents to disprove it.

-I respect panel’s decision however with regards to the selection review outcome letter stated that The Panel noted that the extenuating circumstances but did not feel they explained the gap between 114 and the qualifying mark. I would like to highlight that every child is different. How is it judged by a review panel to determine objectively whether exceptional circumstances are sufficient to account for the shortfall in marks

**When we last discussed FCO, we hadn't seen the school case, and anyway I thought it best to leave any specific arguments to the hearing.I'm still in the dark as to what is in the school case, but could you look through the Bucks sticky viewtopic.php?f=12&t=60296
and say whether you think any of the points in section D4 applies to you?
I will go through D4 section and see if I can fit something .

We did receive initial response by letter that BGS are refusing appeals as they are fully subscribed .Not sure if still any point of giving all answers to questions they asked?
Thank you again for all your support !!
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Appeal with unsuccessful SR

Post by Etienne »

No need to apologise. I misread the question! :oops:
Child’s results over time are consistently at the ‘expected level’ in Reading and Writing and ‘at greater depth’ in Mathematics. Broadly the same profile has emerged in his Secondary School Selection Test score. Based on this evidence why do you feel that the Selection Review Panel’s view of Child's test score was not fair, consistent and objective?
I think the answer to the first question is taking shape. You could reply:
    • I am not querying the SRP's view of the academic evidence available at the time, but, with respect, the issue is whether there is evidence to show that the process being followed was fair, consistent and objective.

      It is for the admission authority to prove their case (para. 3.13b of the Appeals Code), but I would like to draw attention to two main flaws in the review process as it was applied in my case:
      (a) There appear to be no academic criteria for the SRP to use as a guideline in determining grammar school suitability. How, therefore, could my academic case be judged consistently with other cases?
      (b) The clerk's notes state that the SRP did not feel my extenuating circumstances explained the gap between 114 and the qualifying mark.
      Contrast this with special needs where the LA has stated: "We cannot offer extra marks to compensate for any special needs your child may have. This is because each child's case is different. It is impossible to say exactly how many marks would be appropriate."
      https://www.buckscc.gov.uk/services/edu ... onditions/
      Surely the same basic principle applies to extenuating circumstances? In the absence of any criteria, how was it possible for the SRP to determine objectively whether my exceptional circumstances were sufficient to account for the shortfall in marks?
      And in what way was this part of the review process consistent? In order to try and make consistent judgements, SRPs needed at the very least a policy setting out how they would deal with extenuating circumstances. (Presumably universities and exam boards do this.)
Given the above results why do you think that child will be able to cope with a grammar school education?
Suggested answer:
    • If the admission authority has not proved that the review process was FCO, then the IAP is free to take into account the new academic evidence of grammar school suitability, which was not available to the SRP .
What does Burnham Grammar School offer Child that Desborough School does not?
It sounds as if it's going to be difficult to come up with strong reasons, so I find this the most difficult question.

You've mentioned walking distance.
Can you tell me:
    • Are you in catchment?
      Do you consider this to be your local school?
      Are his friends going there?
      Is this the school he has always wanted to join?
As your son is good at maths, we could also try arguing:
    • Son is strong at maths. BGS used to specialise in this subject, and it is still one of the school's particular strengths.


We did receive initial response by letter that BGS are refusing appeals as they are fully subscribed
BGS can't refuse appeals. Only the appeal panel can do that!

However, there seem to be lots of appeals for BGS most years, which means unfortunately that arguments such as walking distance aren't going to stand out from the crowd.
Etienne
KS13
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:35 pm

Re: Appeal with unsuccessful SR

Post by KS13 »

Thank you so much Etienne for answer suggestions.

You've mentioned walking distance.
Can you tell me:
Are you in catchment? **-we are in catchment,just 7-10 minutes walk from home
Do you consider this to be your local school? ***-this is our local school,actually this is the only sec school locally we got in Bucks after upper academy school was closed last year
Are his friends going there? yes
Is this the school he has always wanted to join?
**-we always considered due to convenience and his other senior friends ,my friends's child goes there.

As your son is good at maths, we could also try arguing:
Son is strong at maths. BGS used to specialise in this subject, and it is still one of the school's particular strengths.***-I would definitely mention this ,I didn't know much about school specific specialisation-thank you so much for information.
I will also correlate this info to their another question - Why is Burnham Grammar School the right school for child on academic grounds?

I also appealed for John Hamden school and received questions from them as well .If there is any tips in regards to this please,really appreciated .

Of all the Bucks grammar schools what makes John Hampden the most suitable for him?

What has enthused him about the school?





Thank you so much for your responses,can't thank you enough for this support.
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Appeal with unsuccessful SR

Post by Etienne »

With BGS you set the ball rolling with "walking distance", and we can build on that with:
local school, in catchment, friends etc.
I'm not saying it's a strong case, but it's a lot better than nothing!
To make it stronger, you would have to show why these things matter.
For example, is walking distance important because your work (explain what it is) would make the logistics of getting your son to an alternative school much more difficult?
Do friends matter because this is a vulnerable child who would benefit from the support of his friends?

I'm not sure where to start with John Hampden. (Only you can really say what your reasons might be.)
The obvious point about the school is that it's boys only - but that won't help if BGS is a higher preference (I don't know). Even if JH is first preference, would this argument matter?
See: https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appea ... school#c36" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The other point about JH is that it used to specialise in Technology (including Maths, ICT and Science), so you could probably use the argument about son's ability in maths, and how he would like to develop this in the context of technology.

JH also used to specialise in sport, so if son happened by chance to be strong at sport, this could be relevant.

If referring to a school's previous specialisms, it's essential to make clear that you realise these no longer exist, or the panel might reject the argument. For BGS I suggested further up using a form of words such as "..... the school used to specialise in this subject, and it is still one of the school's particular strengths."

Hope this helps.
Etienne
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