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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:17 pm 
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wonder if I could ask for some advice please?
Our son recently failed to reach the magic 121 on the Bucks 11+
He scored 119.
His result was brought down by the NVR score of 109. This was unusual as this is the area in which his score is usually the highest.
His September 2020 overall CAT score was 125.
Notably his VR was 129 and Spatial awareness was 137.

My questions therefore are:
Is going to Appeal the best course of action given the above?
If we did the selection review and then when/if this fails go to Appeal would that be a better approach?

Thanks. Any advice appreciated.


Last edited by Kingfisher20 on Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:11 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:02 pm 
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Welcome to the forum. :)

Karenscarle wrote:
We are therefore thinking of going straight to appeal. Our rationale being that we will have a better opportunity to put forward a case in person when we will have time to show all past reports showing A’s/B’s for effort and thereby question the fairness of the English teachers grading of 3 for effort pre 11+. Also we could challenge the fairness, in person, of the 3 for academic suitability given the CAT scores/11+ scores/other test scores that are equally high.
I agree that it should be much easier to challenge fairness in front of an independent appeal panel.
However, we can't be sure if the emergency covid regulations will still be in force - there have been no face to face hearings since 24th April, just written submissions in Bucks.

Quote:
My questions therefore are:
Is going to Appeal the best course of action given the above?
I'm afraid there's no easy answer. The disadvantage of going straight to appeal is that the grammar schools are likely to be oversubscribed, so it would not be enough to get over the qualification hurdle - you would also need really strong reasons for wanting a place in order to outweigh any prejudice to the school:
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appea ... -school#c2

Quote:
If we did the selection review and then when/if this fails go to Appeal would that be a better approach?
The problem with this is that the first thing the appeal panel has to do is consider whether you have already had a fair, consistent and objective review. If they decide the answer is 'Yes', then your appeal case will be dismissed without further consideration. (And last year most reviews were judged to have been fair, consistent and objective.)

Quote:
A less easy question to answer…..but do we challenge the school over the 3/3 score given the lack of any evidence on the schools part to substantiate this grading?.
It depends what academic evidence you have. Achievement grades will be of much more interest than effort grades.

Have you asked for the headteacher's review form to be completed?
To advise you further, I think we would need to know what it says. (It won't be used for a review unless you want it to be.)
Headteachers have to complete a progress chart from Y2 to Y5 showing achievement in the core subjects, and give a prediction for the end of Y6.
They are also asked to explain any reservations they may have on the review form.

Quote:
Or is challenging the school over the grading pointless as it cant be undone now ?
I don't think the headteacher's recommendations can be altered, although I see nothing to stop a headteacher writing a letter to say the school has changed its mind.

Is this a Bucks primary school?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:32 am 
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Thanks :D


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:56 pm 
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Hi Etienne
Yes it’s a Bucks primary.
I have the head teachers report.
How is it best for you to review it as I don’t see a personal message option below?
Thx
KF


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:34 pm 
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Kingfisher20 wrote:
Hi Etienne
Yes it’s a Bucks primary.
I have the head teachers report.
How is it best for you to review it as I don’t see a personal message option below?
Thx
KF

Hi

You can email it if you wish.
Details are here:
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/general#a62
The address is at the bottom (point 10).
Please note also points 1, 6, 8, 9.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:42 pm 
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Thanks so much :D
I have sent the HT letter to the postbox.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:59 pm 
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Sorry, but nothing has arrived.

Would you like to try again?

You'll know if your email has reached the Appeals Box because you should get an automated acknowledgement.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:16 pm 
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Thanks for letting me know.
I’ll try again.
Also we had a WISC-5 assessment done yesterday.
The general ability index ( measure of overall intellectual ability) was 127 (96th percentile).
I’m hoping this may add some weight to the ability side of the argument??
Over the last two years there has been a discrepancy between the VR score(128) and English attainment (100) scores. I only clocked it whilst shifting through all the data because of the borderline 11+ result.
The school hadn’t spotted it and when I pointed it out have suggested it is due to lack of motivation/engagement. Hence the 3/3 score from the English headteacher.
The WISC-5 highlights a big disconnected in a similar way between the general ability score on the 96th percentile and the processing speed index which falls on the 6th percentile.
The EP has written that this will mean problems in output academically when under limited time conditions.
Clearly it doesn’t change the numbers, which are lower than we need on the English attainment side of things but it does give a good reason for it.
Is this something we should flag in our letter also?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:43 pm 
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Thanks, email received. :D

Having studied the review form, my advice is that you should consider having what diplomats would call a "full and frank exchange" with the headteacher.

A review for your son is likely to fail because of (a) the HTR (headteacher recommendation), which isn't really a recommendation, and (b) the unexplained jump in maths from a consistent EXS to a 111-120 prediction.

The HTR

With regard to (a) you could point out that there is a mismatch between the HTR and the headteacher's comments.

The headteacher refers to "scores given by a range of subject teachers" with reservations expressed by "one or two teachers". (Is it two, or is it one?!)
I would interpret the headteacher's reference to "scores" as implying a lack of achievement, and yet elsewhere the head mentions son's "academic potential" and states that he would "thrive" at a selective school. :?

Perhaps there isn't really an issue with academic potential?
Indeed, your latest post reports the school as suggesting instead a "lack of motivation/engagement".

The first number in the HTR is for "grammar school suitability", and it is clear from the definitions that this refers to suitability in terms of academic ability (not motivation/engagement).

The second number in the HTR is for "attitude to learning", which is surely something separate.

I would argue that, if the school truly believes there is a lack of motivation/engagement, rather than a lack of achievement, they may have allowed the second number unfairly to influence the first, which is for ability alone.

The school was not aware of the WISC results, but they were predicting 111-120 and GDS at KS2, they have highlighted the very high CAT percentiles, and they have mentioned "academic potential" and "thriving" at a selective school.
Why on earth wouldn't they give a 1 or a 2 for academic ability, even if they think it should be a 3 for attitude?

However, to make things even more confused, when I look at the comments for Maths, English and Science, I cannot see anything to indicate a problem with attitude. Quite the opposite! (And I think you have previously mentioned high effort grades on school reports.)

I would be inclined to put these points to the school, and ask if they would promptly write a letter of support to set the record straight.

Maths

With regard to (b), I cannot see any comment from the school to explain the jump in maths to 111-120. I doubt that the review panel will believe it, unless the school can offer some justification. Could they point to a recent test result, or refer more generally to "greater maturity" or "recent rapid progress"?

New evidence

The WISC report seems very good, and I would certainly use it.
I note that the PSI would distort the result to such an extent that it has not been possible to calculate a FSIQ. The educational psychologist has had to give a GAI instead (96th percentile, which is very impressive).

I would show the report to the school, and, if they are willing to write some sort of follow-up letter for a review or appeal, perhaps they would kindly mention that they have seen this additional academic evidence, and have also noted the processing speed which is an extenuating circumstance they were previously unaware of.


P.S. There are some weaknesses in the Prior Academic Attainment (e.g. CAT quantitative 113), but I've already given you enough to think about!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:18 am 
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Thank you so much :)
We too are flummoxed by the schools response.
We have written to the HT who will not budge from her position on the 3/3 despite us providing evidence of a peer in the same class, with the same grades, being given a 2/2.
It seems incredibly subjective ( and unfair ).
Given the school seem unlikely to change their stance I was wondering if we need to approach it from the perspective of our son having a newly diagnosed learning difficulty ( very low PSI) and thus needing more time on exams? This wasn’t know at the time of the 11+ hence reasonable provision wasn’t made?.
It was good to do the WISC assessment because it confirmed what we already suspected/knew re academic potential. However it seems despite all the supporting evidence it actually comes down to what the HT says, regardless of the fact that what she says is totally contradictory :|
At a loss as to our next move.....


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