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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:17 am 
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I have read through the guidance on this site which is very useful but I can't find the answer to my question below. Apologies if I've missed it somewhere.

We just found out that my youngest child did not pass the 11+ and achieved a score of 112. My question is whether with that score there is any point in applying for a selection review/appeal. His two older siblings both passed and are both at grammar school. My youngest always assumed he would go to the same school as them and we are all quite upset that he (probably) won't be going to the same school as them. From my perspective, he is just as bright as the other two and, if anything, more inquisitive about the world around him and asks lots of interesting questions! I am just disappointed he won't have the same opportunity as the older two.

In his year 5 report he achieved:
Reading GDS
Writing EXS/GDS
Maths GDS
He got a lovely report and an "A" for attitude to learning for all of those.

I haven't spoken to the school yet about supporting an appeal. Before I do, I'd really like to know if his low score means an appeal is a non-starter. I think the school would support him but I don't have particularly strong extenuating circumstances.

Are children with that low a STTS ever successful in selection reviews/appeals?

Thank you


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:25 am 
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Hi and welcome to the forum - the key bit with any appeal / review is good academic evidence - there is quite a bit of info here https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals and also some specific info about success rates for review and appeal in Bucks here https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appea ... aneous#e34


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:42 pm 
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Welcome!

You'll see from the figures Herman has referred you to that the review success rate at 112 in recent years has varied from approx. 2% - 25%, so it's not impossible - but it won't be easy!

See the headteacher to find out how strongly the school will support a review.
They may want to be supportive because of the excellent attitude, but attainment is what really matters, not attitude. What has recent academic achievement been like? What are they going to predict for KS2?
Did they know about your extenuating circumstances at the time? Do they agree that these had an impact?

If the reaction seems positive, it then depends on what they're prepared to put in writing, so ask them to go ahead with their review form. (You don't have to submit it.)

Once you have their review form, we'll have a better idea of what to do.

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:15 pm 
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Thank you both very much for your replies. I hadn't found the data on success by scores before so that was very interesting reading. Good to know there is some hope even if slim. I will get in touch with the headteacher tomorrow and see what she says. We are out of county so I hope they will still support the process.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:41 am 
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I have had a very positive response from my child's headteacher which I have pasted below. I have read everything about the choice between an initial Selection Review and going straight to appeal and in particular about the challenges of an appeal following an unsuccessful Selection Review. Given my son's relatively low 11+ score, I was thinking that I might have a better chance of success with an appeal panel where I can present evidence directly, except for the fact that the statistics appear to suggest better prospects at Selection Review. Are you able to give me any advice on that please so I know whether to send the link to the head for completion?

Also should I ask the head if she is willing to provide me with predicted SATS scores (and anything else?) in advance of her completion of the form? Will that make any difference to the decision of Selection Review vs. appeal? This is the Bucks appeal process and we are out of county.

This was the head's response to me:

Quote:
Thanks for your email. Having reviewed the data and had a quick chat with his teachers this morning, we would definitely suggest that [ ] is a worthy candidate for a grammar school place. What a shame he did not pass - I think [ ] does at times rush through things (probably because he is an able boy who finds things quite easy to do) and would probably explain why he made some errors on the test.
We would be very happy to support the appeals process and will do all we can to support your application. Having siblings at the school does add weight to the appeal too.
If you begin the appeals process, it will automatically send me an online link to complete to give support to the application, so just ensure you put my name down and I'll do this before the deadline!

Good luck- hopefully he will still secure a place!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:26 pm 
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KeepOnKeepingOn wrote:
except for the fact that the statistics appear to suggest better prospects at Selection Review. Are you able to give me any advice on that please so I know whether to send the link to the head for completion?
The statistics are bound to be skewed. Firstly, the strongest cases are likely to go to review. The original idea of reviews was to filter out all these borderline cases so that they didn't need to go to appeal. Look at the review outcomes - last year 85% of children with 120 were successful at review. It's very rare for someone with a 120 score to skip the review and go straight to appeal!
Secondly, appeals have an additional hurdle - grammar schools are unlikely to have any vacancies left by that point in time, so it is necessary to appeal against prejudice to the school as well as on the question of academic suitability.
Thirdly, as we've suggested in the Q&As E33:
      Quote:
      The success rate for appeals without a review is very low, but we suspect there are some very specific reasons for this.

      For example, the numbers involved will include children of families moving late into Buckinghamshire after reviews have finished. They may come from comprehensive areas where schools are reluctant to co-operate with selection procedures, and they may lack the sort of evidence needed for a successful appeal. It seems unlikely that they will have all the structured evidence normally set out in a headteacher review form, without which it is difficult to win an appeal. (Even though someone has not taken part in the review process, an appeal panel would probably like to see the same sort of detailed evidence as would have been available at the review stage.)

Quote:
Also should I ask the head if she is willing to provide me with predicted SATS scores (and anything else?) in advance of her completion of the form? Will that make any difference to the decision of Selection Review vs. appeal?
You must ask the head to complete the review form. See the Q&As, E32 (e):
      Quote:
      e. Even if you intend to skip the review and go straight to appeal, we strongly advise you to keep your options open for a couple of weeks, and to ask your primary school head to complete a “Selection Review Summary Sheet” for your child now, as this could provide very useful evidence if you do go straight to an appeal. (Headteachers are under no obligation to provide this same information later in the academic year.)
Once you know exactly what it contains, then we'll be better placed to advise on review vs. appeal.

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:20 pm 
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Thank you.

Quote:
You must ask the head to complete the review form. See the Q&As, E32 (e)


I have read all the guidance but as far as I can see from the process there is no opportunity for me to see a draft of the headteacher's review form before the application for the Selection Review is submitted. The link from Bucks says that I have to apply for the review online and then "An email will also be sent to your Headteacher with a link to the online form for the Headteacher’s Selection Review Summary Sheet. Ask your child's headteacher to complete this." That is clearly anticipated by my son's headteacher too because she refers in her email to receiving the link to complete. Is there a way for me to get a draft of the form before submitting the application for a review?

Quote:
The statistics are bound to be skewed. Firstly, the strongest cases are likely to go to review. The original idea of reviews was to filter out all these borderline cases so that they didn't need to go to appeal. Look at the review outcomes - last year 85% of children with 120 were successful at review. It's very rare for someone with a 120 score to skip the review and go straight to appeal!


I was referring specifically to the success statistics of the Selection Reviews for those who have scored 112. According to those stats, the success rate at 112 since 2014 has been between 2% and 30% with an average of 17%, although the last 4 years have been lower (14%, 5%, 14% and only 2% out of 45 last year :( )

Thank you again. I really do appreciate your time and support.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:40 pm 
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You will receive a copy of the head's form after they've filled it in. You need to apply for SR first. You don't have to include the report, but of course, it's best to. So don't worry, you will see it first.

I'm in county and in my daughter's school year (60 pupils), only one passed with 121. It was slightly different as the exam was postponed due to Covid, additionally her school had to postpone again due to her year bubble closing. This did have an effect, as quite a few were tutored, and only one passed.

There was a pupil who scored 111. She went through the SR and was successful, so it's definitely possible to go through the SR and succeed.

We went through the SR process last year (daughter got 118). It was fairly straightforward. I had amazing help from Etienne and other forum members.

Remember that academic potential is more important than extenuating circumstances.

The head's form does include anticipated scores in Y6, so you don't need to ask for them separately.

If you do have extenuating circumstances then include them (without labouring the point). Our extenuating circumstances were that my brother had just died and my dad was very ill. He died before she started at high school (he knew she'd got a successful SR and was so proud, and was determined to drive her to her new school).

You'll have great advice on here. Best of luck.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:38 pm 
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Thanks very much, Tamisara. I'm so sorry to hear about your brother.

That is encouraging on the process and I'm very pleased it worked out for your daughter.

My point is just that if I apply for the SR then I no longer have a choice (I think) about whether to go down the appeal route rather than the SR route. Whereas my impression from Etienne was that we could look at the headteacher's form first and then decide whether the SR or appeal option was better.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:28 pm 
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Oh I see, sorry.

Yes it is a gamble. The disadvantage of going straight to appeal, is that you're not appealing for qualification to grammar school, you're appealing for a particular school. This means that your appeal won't be heard until after the first round of allocations (or maybe even later rounds). There is a real risk, therefore, that the school you want will be oversubscribed. If I remember correctly you have have appeal for each school you would like a place at.

Last year, SHFGS was oversubscribed and wouldn't have taken anyone on appeal (I'm pretty sure that's correct).

You can still appeal even if you don't qualify at SR. The only problem is that you'd have to show that the SR panel made some error (please correct if wrong).

It's up to you. If you've got strong support from the head and evidence of academic ability, then SR is worth a shot, but yes, then you risk your appeal not being allowed.

If not then appeal, but remember it is for a specific school and they may well be full by the time the appeal is heard.

Please post what the head has said when you receive it, so that Etienne et al can appraise and advise further.


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