Too low a score for a selection review/appeal?

[KeepOnKeepingOn]

I am only interested in applying for the specific grammar school that my other two children are at. If he can't get in there, then I would choose our local comprehensive so it doesn't worry me that the appeal route is for a specific school. It will be oversubscribed but I would hope that if he qualified through appeal he would move to the top of the waiting list because he will have siblings there and we are in catchment (despite being OOC) so I would be optimistic of him getting in through the waiting list process.

Our biggest challenge is qualification and therefore I want to try to go for whichever route gives us the best chance - review or appeal.

Hopefully Etienne can advise if there is a way to get a completed form from the head without actually pressing go on the selection review!

[Etienne]

Hopefully Etienne can advise if there is a way to get a completed form from the head without actually pressing go on the selection review!

A review request and a review submission are two different things.
As I understand it, this is what happens:

• 1. The parent starts the process by making a selection review request – think of it as the equivalent of asking for an application form. There is no commitment.
  It is necessary to put in the school email address, and the system then asks the headteacher to fill in a review form (in case it's needed).
  It also replies to the parent and gives them a link to go to selection review – for them to use later if they want to.
  
  2. When the headteacher fills in the online review form and submits it, the system sends copies to the parent, the head, and the LA (Admissions).
  
  3. The parent considers the headteacher's review form, and decides whether to go to Selection Review (with or without the head's review form depending on whether they think it strengthens or undermines their case). If they want to go ahead, they follow the link provided and they can then submit all the information for their case. This constitutes the selection review submission.
  
  If, however, they decide they do not want to proceed further, nothing more happens, and the LA makes no use of the headteacher's review form (it does not get sent on to a selection review panel).

Note: Even if the parent submits an application for a selection review, they can cancel it and withdraw from the SR at any time up to the point the decisions come out (although leaving it that late to withdraw is not advised!).

Hope this helps to clarify.


PS. Lovely to hear from tamisara!

[KeepOnKeepingOn]

Ah all clear. Thank you very much. I'll proceed with the review request.

[KeepOnKeepingOn]

I have received the review form completed by the form. I hope it's OK to list the results here

It has:

Grammar School Suitability: 1:2
Attitude to learning: 2:2

Progress Chart:
Predicted SATS: 111-120 for Reading and Maths and EXS for Writing.
Reading and Maths are GDS at all prior levels. Reading was GDS at KS1 and EXS since then.

Additional comments:
[ ] is a naturally able boy who has much potential. Both his siblings already attend [ ] and he would most certainly thrive in such an environment. His 11+ test results were not in line with his usual ability seen in previous tests.

I am a bit disappointed with the EXS for writing because his year 5 report says "GDS/EXS" for writing. I assume there is no point in asking the head if she will review that.

It feels like a bit of an uphill struggle because I understand with a STTS of 112 that GDS for Writing would really be needed at Selection Review? I would be grateful for your thoughts on next steps.

[Etienne]

Grammar School Suitability: 1:2
Attitude to learning: 2:2

Slightly odd. There is usually just a single figure, e.g. Suitability 1. Attitude 2.

"1:2" isn't normally used on the review form, but it would mean Suitability 1, Attitude 2.
A "2:2" would mean Suitability 2, Attitude 2, so it's confusing.

Reading was GDS at KS1 and EXS since then.

Should this be Writing?

I am a bit disappointed with the EXS for writing because his year 5 report says "GDS/EXS" for writing. I assume there is no point in asking the head if she will review that.

I don't think the review form can be changed.

It feels like a bit of an uphill struggle because I understand with a STTS of 112 that GDS for Writing would really be needed at Selection Review?

Probably, but it's up to the panel to decide on each case.
Do you have anything positive with regard to Writing that could be included with a review submission?
The Y5 report is one possibility because of "GDS/EXS". What was the comment accompanying this? Was there any advice on how to make further progress?


Has the head included anything in the section for nationally standardised tests? (It may be that the school doesn't do them.)

[KeepOnKeepingOn]

Slightly odd. There is usually just a single figure, e.g. Suitability 1. Attitude 2.

"1:2" isn't normally used on the review form, but it would mean Suitability 1, Attitude 2.
A "2:2" would mean Suitability 2, Attitude 2, so it's confusing.

Yes I did wonder what it meant. Perhaps it's because they are out of county so less familiar with the form. I could ask for a letter from the head to confirm that she considers him a 1 on suitability and enclose that with the review?

Quote:
Reading was GDS at KS1 and EXS since then.
Should this be Writing?

Yes sorry I meant Writing.

Do you have anything positive with regard to Writing that could be included with a review submission?
The Y5 report is one possibility because of "GDS/EXS". What was the comment accompanying this? Was there any advice on how to make further progress?

I don't know what else I could provide other than an example of work which I understand is not really relevant. The comment on the Y5 report in relation to Writing was:
"[ ] tries hard with his writing, using structure and vocabulary he has experienced in his reading to add to how own work. This year has become increasingly able to include a range of figurative language and is also more able to explain his work or the work of others using the correct grammatical terminology. To make even further progress, [ ] needs to consider his reader carefully when writing, ensuring he uses the best language and sentence structure for his desired purpose."

I'm not sure that that particularly helps?

There is nothing on the form on nationally standardised tests. I don't believe the school do them.

I was thinking about getting an educational psychologist (Wisc V?) report. Do you think that would be helpful for a selection review or appeal? If it is not sufficiently supportive, I think it will still be interesting and at least make me more comfortable with the non-grammar route for him.

[Etienne]

Perhaps it's because they are out of county so less familiar with the form.

I think so.

I could ask for a letter from the head to confirm that she considers him a 1 on suitability and enclose that with the review?

Probably not worth the effort. Both 1 and 2 are strong recommendations. If you go to review, just mention "Suitability 1. Attitude 2" in your own statement.

I don't know what else I could provide other than an example of work which I understand is not really relevant.

No, they won't look at school work.

The comment on the Y5 report in relation to Writing was:
"[ ] tries hard with his writing, using structure and vocabulary he has experienced in his reading to add to how own work. This year has become increasingly able to include a range of figurative language and is also more able to explain his work or the work of others using the correct grammatical terminology. To make even further progress, [ ] needs to consider his reader carefully when writing, ensuring he uses the best language and sentence structure for his desired purpose."
I'm not sure that that particularly helps?

Agreed.

To sum up:
• Writing might be a problem for a review.
• It might also be a problem for an appeal - but son would have until April/May to show improvement.

I was thinking that I might have a better chance of success with an appeal panel where I can present evidence directly

I think this could be true for you under normal circumstances, but we don't yet know whether appeals will have resumed face to face hearings by next summer. The emergency covid regulations have been extended to September 2022, so in theory it could mean written submissions only, but ultimately it depends on what appeal panel members are willing to do. They might opt for Teams/Zoom (which they haven't done so far), written submissions, or in person hearings - we don't know.

the statistics appear to suggest better prospects at Selection Review

I've gone into the reasons why the success rate for appeals is low.
Provided you don't go through an unsuccessful review, you would be left with two hurdles to overcome at appeal:

• qualification
  + prejudice (because the school is full).

• With regard to qualification, an update from the school in April about progress in Writing could be very helpful, if that were possible.
• With regard to prejudice, you should be in quite a strong position because of the siblings. All the grammar schools will resist further admissions, but some will put forward a stronger case than others. Perhaps you could tell me privately at some point which school you are interested in.
• Even if you lost the prejudice argument (having qualified), you would be in a good position on the waiting list.

I was thinking about getting an educational psychologist (Wisc V?) report. Do you think that would be helpful for a selection review or appeal?

It could be, but even if favourable it would be up to the panel to decide how much weight to give it.

If it is not sufficiently supportive, I think it will still be interesting.

If you don't mind the expense, that would be a good reason for getting a WISC-V report
Not sure if this would be in time for the review deadline. You would need to ring around to see if an EP could fit you in.

[KeepOnKeepingOn]

Thank you for the advice again. Since I last posted, I have managed to obtain a WISC-V report. It's very interesting but I am rather thrown by it and don't know what it means for his chances on appeal nor really on his suitability for grammar school!

He got:
Verbal Comprehension Index (VCI) 111 - 77th percentile (High Average)
Visual Spatial Index (VSI) 114 - 82nd percentile (High Average)
Working Memory Index (WMI) 103 - 58th percentile (Average)
Processing Speed Index (PSI) 86 - 18th percentile (Low Average)
Full Scale IQ (FSIQ) - 112 - 79th percentile (High Average)

His results on fluid reasoning were too diverse to give a reportable index for FRI. They described the difference between his scores on the different subtests for FRI as significant and unusual.

The comments on the PSI score included: "The difference between the PSI and the average of all five primary index scores is significant and so large that it is not commonly found in the general population. In this case, the PSI is Low Average relative to
same age peers and is considered an Uncommon Personal Weakness. Overall, [ ]’s Processing Speed is likely to have an impact on learning."

This is the first time I have ever heard anything like this about my son's learning. His school have described him as "a very able boy who finds things quite easy to do."

I have spent some time googling terms in the report but I'm still not sure what conclusions to draw. Would you infer from this that grammar school is not the place for him because of the speed of the classes and he needs more processing time? Or conversely does it show that he has the intelligence and aptitude for grammar school because his 11+ score was brought down by his processing speed issues?

Do you have any thoughts on how a selection review/appeal panel might view these scores? Is there a minimum FSIQ that is generally needed for a successful review?

Thanks very much.

[Etienne]

I'll reply tomorrow, but is there anything more the EP said, such as:
• suitability for grammar school?
• need for extra time in exams?
• advice with regard to processing speed?

I'm a bit surprised they felt able to calculate a FSIQ. There is something called the GAI (General Ability Index) which is less sensitive to the influence of working memory and processing speed.

[KeepOnKeepingOn]

Thank you.

There's no mention of suitability for grammar school and no mention of extra time needed in exams.

In terms of advice on PSI, it just says:
"[ ]'s overall performance on the PSI was Low Average compared to other children his age. Children with relatively low processing speed may work more slowly than same-age peers, which can make it difficult for them to keep up with classroom activities. Consequently, the child may feel frustrated or confused when material is presented quickly. Often, what is interpreted as a negative reaction from the child could be prevented by matching the adult's response to the needs of the child. It is imperative to provide ample time to process information; the amount of time needed will differ based on the child's "needs." It is important to identify the factors contributing to [ ]'s performance in this area; while some children simply work at a slow pace, others are slowed down by perfectionism, problems with visual processing, inattention, or fine-motor coordination difficulties. In addition to interventions aimed at these underlying areas, processing speed skills may be improved through practice."
And then it talks about games to play to practice.

It is a shame he didn't get a score for fluid reasoning because, although there was a notable gap between the two scores in that area, taking the average of them looks like it would have given him the same score as for Visual Spatial Index.

I am going to speak to try to speak to them about the report today to better understand some areas and I will ask about whether a GAI was considered.

I would be happy to send you the report privately if that would be easier.

Thank you again. I really appreciate your time in helping me navigate this.