Elsie002's Bucks Selection Review
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Elsie002's Bucks Selection Review
Hello, I am looking for some advice about my son’s selection review. He scored 117 in the Bucks transfer test, and we are considering a selection review but am now starting to think it will be unsuccessful after what I’ve read on here about the academic standards required.
The HT report is as follows:
Secondary Transfer Test Score : 117
Age standardised scores Verbal: 115 Mathematical: 105 Non Verbal: 135
Weighted standardised scores Verbal: 57.5 Mathematical: 26.25 Non Verbal: 33.75
HT recommendation: 1:1
End of Y5: GDS for reading, writing and maths.
Predicted performance in July: 111-120 English, GDS writing and 100-110 maths.
Other prior attainment:
September 2021 - Maths SATs standardised score = 102 September 2021 - SPAG SATs standardised score = 113 September 2021 - Reading SATs standardised score = 108
Extenuating circs – none mentioned
Very positive and supportive comment- quite a few sentences, but it essentially that says his work is of a very high standard, they recommend him without any reservation and strongly believe a grammar school would be the most suitable learning environment for him to reach his full potential.
My questions are:
• Are these standardised scores too low? I don’t know what they mean but have seen ones a lot higher on this forum. He did some CAT4 tests in September 2020 (start of Y5) at his old school and the scores were: Verbal 122, Quantitative 107, Non-verbal 118 and Spatial 118, average of 116. If the ones mentioned by the HT are comparable, it seems that the scores have gone down, but I don’t even know if they are the same tests. And if his scores have declined, I am concerned that this is because of the change in schools (see next point).
• He moved from an independent prep to a state primary in April this year, so he has only been in the school a few months. The previous school have provided the CAT scores mentioned above, and I have also found two reports from Y4 and Y5 that both have his average age for maths and English as 2 yrs above his chronological age. They use a different measurement system to the state schools and have also changed it twice during the time he was there, so it’s difficult to compare like for like. Should I submit all of the evidence they provided, or just the current HT report which doesn’t include the prior years?
• On the subject of the school move, I would like to include this in extenuating circumstances because I believe he has missed out on learning the full Y5 syllabus, despite us trying to fill the gaps at home. Because of the disjointed year and moving between two very different schools, we have no way of knowing if everything was covered or not. The maths teacher at his previous school gave a great report and rated him very highly in his final report, and we even have an email from her stating how well he was progressing in maths. But now, looking at his scores above, maths appears to be the weakest area again. I mentioned this to the HT but they did not include it in their report. Can we still mention it in ours? I fear the HT didn’t want to admit that he could have missed out on learning in Y5, but the fact remains that his learning was disrupted and we had to try and catch him up ourselves at home, but perhaps not enough. The move was unavoidable due to financial circumstances, so it’s not a situation we have created intentionally.
• I have two letters from his previous school inviting him to Enrichment classes for English based on his CAT scores. This was an extra session that children could be invited to each term if they scored highly, and he was invited for both terms in Year 5. Is this relevant or unnecessary to include? I only considered including it because of the lack of other evidence from his previous years.
In summary – can we include the extenuating circs of the school moves, and do his CAT/other test scores scupper his chances of succeeding on review despite the 1:1 recommendation?
Thank you very much in advance for any help that you can give.
The HT report is as follows:
Secondary Transfer Test Score : 117
Age standardised scores Verbal: 115 Mathematical: 105 Non Verbal: 135
Weighted standardised scores Verbal: 57.5 Mathematical: 26.25 Non Verbal: 33.75
HT recommendation: 1:1
End of Y5: GDS for reading, writing and maths.
Predicted performance in July: 111-120 English, GDS writing and 100-110 maths.
Other prior attainment:
September 2021 - Maths SATs standardised score = 102 September 2021 - SPAG SATs standardised score = 113 September 2021 - Reading SATs standardised score = 108
Extenuating circs – none mentioned
Very positive and supportive comment- quite a few sentences, but it essentially that says his work is of a very high standard, they recommend him without any reservation and strongly believe a grammar school would be the most suitable learning environment for him to reach his full potential.
My questions are:
• Are these standardised scores too low? I don’t know what they mean but have seen ones a lot higher on this forum. He did some CAT4 tests in September 2020 (start of Y5) at his old school and the scores were: Verbal 122, Quantitative 107, Non-verbal 118 and Spatial 118, average of 116. If the ones mentioned by the HT are comparable, it seems that the scores have gone down, but I don’t even know if they are the same tests. And if his scores have declined, I am concerned that this is because of the change in schools (see next point).
• He moved from an independent prep to a state primary in April this year, so he has only been in the school a few months. The previous school have provided the CAT scores mentioned above, and I have also found two reports from Y4 and Y5 that both have his average age for maths and English as 2 yrs above his chronological age. They use a different measurement system to the state schools and have also changed it twice during the time he was there, so it’s difficult to compare like for like. Should I submit all of the evidence they provided, or just the current HT report which doesn’t include the prior years?
• On the subject of the school move, I would like to include this in extenuating circumstances because I believe he has missed out on learning the full Y5 syllabus, despite us trying to fill the gaps at home. Because of the disjointed year and moving between two very different schools, we have no way of knowing if everything was covered or not. The maths teacher at his previous school gave a great report and rated him very highly in his final report, and we even have an email from her stating how well he was progressing in maths. But now, looking at his scores above, maths appears to be the weakest area again. I mentioned this to the HT but they did not include it in their report. Can we still mention it in ours? I fear the HT didn’t want to admit that he could have missed out on learning in Y5, but the fact remains that his learning was disrupted and we had to try and catch him up ourselves at home, but perhaps not enough. The move was unavoidable due to financial circumstances, so it’s not a situation we have created intentionally.
• I have two letters from his previous school inviting him to Enrichment classes for English based on his CAT scores. This was an extra session that children could be invited to each term if they scored highly, and he was invited for both terms in Year 5. Is this relevant or unnecessary to include? I only considered including it because of the lack of other evidence from his previous years.
In summary – can we include the extenuating circs of the school moves, and do his CAT/other test scores scupper his chances of succeeding on review despite the 1:1 recommendation?
Thank you very much in advance for any help that you can give.
Re: Elsie002's Bucks Selection Review
Welcome! 
I think we'd like to see CAT scores of at least 121, preferably higher.
You could consider skipping the review and going straight to appeal, but I don't think it would be a good idea unless:
a) There's a significant improvement in maths by April/May, and
b) You have really strong reasons for a place at a particular grammar school (as there are unlikely to be any vacancies by that point in time). See: https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appea ... -school#c2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good - provided the head's '1' recommendations were successful, and not over-optimistic.HT recommendation: 1:1
Good.End of Y5: GDS for reading, writing and maths.
Maths could be a problem. The panel will certainly note that this was the weakest area in the transfer test.Predicted performance in July: 111-120 English, GDS writing and 100-110 maths.
For SATs, we'd be looking for scores of 111-120. These are called 'scaled' scores with a maximum of 120.Other prior attainment:
September 2021 - Maths SATs standardised score = 102 September 2021 - SPAG SATs standardised score = 113 September 2021 - Reading SATs standardised score = 108
CATs are nationally standardised tests, and scores can go as high as 140.He did some CAT4 tests in September 2020 (start of Y5) at his old school and the scores were: Verbal 122, Quantitative 107, Non-verbal 118 and Spatial 118, average of 116.
I think we'd like to see CAT scores of at least 121, preferably higher.
I don't think the CAT scores will help. I can't really comment on "2 yrs above his chronological age" because I'm afraid I don't know what this was based on / how it was arrived at.He moved from an independent prep to a state primary in April this year, so he has only been in the school a few months. The previous school have provided the CAT scores mentioned above, and I have also found two reports from Y4 and Y5 that both have his average age for maths and English as 2 yrs above his chronological age. They use a different measurement system to the state schools and have also changed it twice during the time he was there, so it’s difficult to compare like for like. Should I submit all of the evidence they provided
You could include the evidence as an attachment - and link it with the disruption of changing schools, which unfortunately seems to have affected maths more than anything else.The maths teacher at his previous school gave a great report and rated him very highly in his final report, and we even have an email from her stating how well he was progressing in maths. But now, looking at his scores above, maths appears to be the weakest area again. I mentioned this to the HT but they did not include it in their report. Can we still mention it in ours?
You could - but if CATs are mentioned and all the scores are not given, the panel will wonder what they were, and why they haven't been provided.I have two letters from his previous school inviting him to Enrichment classes for English based on his CAT scores. This was an extra session that children could be invited to each term if they scored highly, and he was invited for both terms in Year 5. Is this relevant or unnecessary to include? I only considered including it because of the lack of other evidence from his previous years.
YesIn summary – can we include the extenuating circs of the school moves
They might do - glad it won't be for me to decide! It's a decision for the panel.and do his CAT/other test scores scupper his chances of succeeding on review
The weight of which has yet to be determined. The panel will certainly look at the number of the school's '1' recommendations, and how they fared.despite the 1:1 recommendation?
You could consider skipping the review and going straight to appeal, but I don't think it would be a good idea unless:
a) There's a significant improvement in maths by April/May, and
b) You have really strong reasons for a place at a particular grammar school (as there are unlikely to be any vacancies by that point in time). See: https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appea ... -school#c2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Etienne
Re: Elsie002's Bucks Selection Review
Thank you vey much Etienne for the detailed response. I think it confirms my initial feeling that we might not succeed in the review, but I think we will give it a shot anyway. We aren't telling our son about the review so he thinks he's going to the same school as his friends anyway (only 1 in the year group qualified). We don't have much choice in our area (catchment grammar is RLS, alternative is Buckingham school) but that's the risk we take by living here 
